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Quem deus vult perdere


Marissa Devault murder trial shares similarities with Jodi Arias, trial set to begin Thursday
Could Marissa Devault be the next Jodi Arias? Her trial starts Thursday morning and experts are already drawing the comparison.


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Step 4. Why Dr Horn was wrong about the gunshot.

Dr Horn testified at trial that Travis would have been immediately incapacitated by the gunshot, on the basis that the bullet must have passed through Travis’ brain.

The basis for this was an X-ray that showed a fracture where the bullet apparently penetrated Travis’ skull.

However there was a mystery : no damage was found to the brain, even though the brain was examined in detail. The autopsy report records:

o Good preservation of cerebral symmetry

o The dura mater and falx cerebri are intact

o Serial sections of autolyzed brain do not reveal the presence of grossly apparent trauma, foreign bodies

In addition, as we saw in Step 1, the only possible explanation for the blood evidence is that the gunshot came first.

So something is wrong. Dr Horn claimed that there was a “typographical error” in his report. But there is another explanation.

The truth has to be that the bullet did not fully penetrate Travis skull, instead it deflected off the second layer of bone that forms the sinus cavity, still fracturing the bone, but not penetrating it.

See detailed information on the bullet track.

Next: Step 5. Why Amanda Webb was mistaken about the 3rd gas can

Step-by-Step Guide Index

Note: be sure to stay STRICTLY on-topic when commenting on the Step-by-Step posts. Off-topic comments will be removed.

Like ·  · Share · February 3 at 9:56am · Edited

I’m not someone who assumes that any murder case in which there was no witness to it goes exactly as the prosecution alleges.

In this case they had a crime scene which had been partially cleaned, so even the most optimistic investigator will know that what they feel happened will be automatically questionable.

I think it’s easy to look at specific examples and then conclude the prosecution were mistaken, but ultimately in this case every defence or explanation that Jodi us…See More

  • 5 people like this.
  • George Barwood Thanks for posting James, I think that sets out your current beliefs very clearly, which is an excellent start.

    But… what PROOF is there that Jodi murdered Travis other than in self-defense?

    That is the key question isn’t it?

  • George Barwood One other comment : in any wrongful conviction, there is always apparently good evidence, it’s when you look really closely at the evidence that things get interesting.
  • Darlene Specht Brehm I thought the gun was stolen out of the house along with some cash from jodi’s room????
  • Billy Malone But the gun didn’t kill or even wound Travis. It was the bullet. Any evidence that suggest any one of those seven hollow point bullets was fired at Travis?
  • George Barwood I believe the gun theft was a red herring. Juan even had a Felony murder theory based on Jodi stealing Travis’ gun, which is an admission that there was no proof Jodi stole the gun from her own home.

    Also, the stolen ammunition doesn’t match the recovered bullet and cartridge casing.

  • George Barwood And if you believe Juan’s theory ( not many people around here do!) it’s very odd to steal a gun from your own home, but only shoot the victim after he is dead!
  • Billy Malone I could go along with shooting the victim after death as the cops do it all the time. Then the was a case where the women kept pulling the trigger after the gun was empty and the victim dead. Just goes along with being in the survival mode. But where did Jodi buy or replace the bullets that were stolen? Not saying she didn’t but the evidence presented just doesn’t show it.
  • George Barwood I agree Billy : you can hardly argue “Well the calibre matched” but then ignore the fact that ammunition did’t match.
  • Billy Malone Then again could have been a mistake in either the reporting of the gun or/and Br. Horn’s. But all issues of ambiguity be resolved in favor of the defendant and against the prosecution.
  • Rob Roman I don’t think the theft of the gun and other small items from different rooms is at all unusual or strange because when I was a child, we had a similar burglary of our house while we were on vacation. We believe it was juveniles who did it.
  • Rob Roman Also, no one but Travis and Jodi knew what they were doing and Travis confided in no one about it, so what is so unusual about no one knowing about the gun? I’ve seen comments from other gun owners who said that extra ammo and cleaning kit are not required as if you would automatically have these things.
  • Billy Malone Three grown men in a house in AZ and no one owns a gun is unusual . The cops not finding the gun is somewhat unusual. The gun being reported stolen just days before someone is killed with the same cal. with ties to the gun is unusual. The ammunition not matching is really unusual unless it wasn’t the same gun.
  • Rob Roman There’s nothing unusual, Billy, about a different brand of ammunition. The defense should have pointed that out because not pointing it our leads the jury to believe it was the same.
  • Billy Malone Sure is if the prosecution says the gun that was stolen had hollow points and there wasn’t a hollow point in Travis’s head. Where and when was the switch made. Burden of proof.
  • Rob Roman Yes, Billy, I agree the defense should have brought that up about the bullets not being the same. Not being the same bullets doesn’t mean it wasn’t the same gun, but it does present more reasonable doubt.
  • Brad Justda Evidently .25 caliber bullets were found at Jodi’s parent’s house in Yreka. They were not hollow point and more closely matched what was found at the crime scene. I don’t know if they were tested or even discussed, but I haven’t heard anything beyond that.
  • James Chester In answer to your question regarding to self defence, it’s critical to remember that the prosecution is not there to disprove anything. Also defence attorneys don’t need to disprove anything either.

    Remember the phrase “you can’t prove a negative”. If Martinez had presented his case effectively saying “this is why it isn’t self defence” then suddenly he is granting credibility to Jodi.
    It is impossible to disprove self defence, but it is possible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was a pre-med. Despite his hysterics, he made all the important points.

    In relation to the gun, if I assume what you say is true then it seems somewhat problematic that her attorneys never brought it up, or brought in a ballistics expert to do so. It means either two things…

    1, They missed a trick.

    2, They didn’t and looked into it, but it didn’t help Jodi’s case. Remember not everything is public knowledge.

  • Kitz DC The stolen gun in Yreka was reported to be loaded with a different caliber, but we really don’t KNOW what caliber unless we find the gun. I don’t think it’s a fact or proof that the bullet caliber was different, anymore than it would be a fact or proof if the burglar report said .25 caliber. Both would be speculation, right?
  • Rob Roman It is proven that the caliber of the stolen gun and the bullet recovered is the same (.25). That is the only thing proven about the gun.
  • Rob Roman You can’t load a gun with different caliber bullets.
  • Billy Malone Yeah & remember this one: 9mm gun found in rental car [hired by Arias] by Hertz employee – 2 weeks later. Like the dirty sock in the OJ case
  • Kitz DC Agreed Rob Roman, it is the only proven evidence.
  • Billy Malone As I posted before they will spin the hell out of everything like the blood being the same type & blood type. Yeah one is because they are both red in color and the other is being the same blood type. (Like type “O”). Same caliber but was it out of the same box?
  • Karlie M. Thompson Rob Roman, you CAN load the wrong caliber bullets, but it’s a recipe for disaster.
  • Billy Malone Well no way to interchange a 9mm with a 25 cal.
  • Rob Roman The 9mm can be interpreted two ways. That Jodi was in fear of being attacked again, or that she didn’t want to be caught. The 9mm can be used by both sides to make a point.
  • Rob Roman Yes, Karlie, you can put a smaller bullet into a gun, you’re right.
  • Billy Malone And leaves it in a rental car ? ? Unusual for anyone.
  • Rob Roman Why is that unusual? She wouldn’t have left it in the rental car if she didn’t get arrested while she had the rental car.
  • Rob Roman She’s not going to tell the police that she has a gun in her rental car when she’s being arrested. But she did tell Flores.
  • Rob Roman Brad is correct.
  • Kitz DC Why in the world would she want to hide it like that? Didn’t she legally purchase that gun? Does CA have regs on concealing guns? Wow – I knew she purchased a 9mm but I didn’t know how it was found. Another twist.
  • George Barwood “It is impossible to disprove self defence, but it is possible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was a pre-med. ”

    Then it is possible to disprove self defense! The proof is indirect.

    Juan’s proof had two crucial points:
    (1) To prove Jodi concealed her trip, and brought the gun.
    The “gas cans” was part of this, based on Jodi’s claim that she had receipts that proved she never went to Mesa.

    (2) To prove that Jodi lied when she said Travis was shot first, proving her story false, allowing jurors to infer guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

    So we need to look closely at this. This is a rewording of

  • Rob Roman She hid the gun because she was not authorized to carry a weapon. She was not allowed to have her gun in her car.
  • Kitz DC Ahhh thanks Rob Roman. Now I really wonder why she wanted that gun.
  • Kellie Pollard I think about stories of police spraying pepper spray in peoples faces who are already restrained by handcuffs and shackles and wonder if things were done to Jodie to make her keep changing her story.
  • Kitz DC Did she ever testify on the reason she purchased the gun? I know she told Flores in their interview that she wanted it for protection (i think). But was it ever brought up during the trial? I think it’s very alarming that she was hiding that gun.
  • Rob Roman Brad, that’s a huge leap and it defies what we know about Jodi being a passive and non-confrontational person. She wasn’t really taking a chance since the gun was apparently very difficult to find unless you were looking for it.
  • Rob Roman I think Jodi testified that she bought it for protection.
  • Kitz DC Why would she hide it?
  • Rob Roman Those three reasons do not exclude each reason.
  • Rob Roman Those are three aspects of the same reason.
  • Brad Justda True Rob, I wasn’t making a judgement on what she claimed, merely stating the facts as I recall them re: the reasons Jodi gave to Flores
  • George Barwood Having just shot Travis accidentally ( leading to a fight in which she killed him ), Jodi apparently decided to become proficient with a gun. An interesting decision that doubtless has it’s pros and cons… and about which people like Paul Huebl have strong views!

    I prefer a society where hand guns are essentially banned, but other people have a different view.

  • Kitz DC Isn’t a 9mm a pricey gun? On average i mean?
  • Rob Roman I don’t have a problem with guns in the home. I really don’t like the idea of everyone traveling around with guns and trying to be their own personal police without a lot of training.
  • Rob Roman If I was attacked and I had to kill a person, I might buy a gun. It doesn’t seem strange or unreasonable to me. Jodi grew up with a family of gun owners.
  • Rob Roman There is no one cookie cutter category for PTSD victims. There are different causes, different symptoms, and different behaviors of people with PTSD.
  • Kitz DC Do you know her personally Rob Roman? I don’t mean that disrespectfully; I’m just trying to understand why you see her as passive and non-aggressive. I’m not still sure about that in my own mind. So it would help me to understand if it’s just ME or if you know more about her than I do?
  • Rob Roman 1) Deanna goes over to Travis’ home. Jodi is there baking cookies. She offers a cookie to Deanna. 2) Jodi goes to Travis’ home and it’s locked. She goes around and sees Travis feeling up another woman. She leaves. 3) Jodi goes to Travis’ home and walks in the door. Travis is with Lisa. Jodi turns around and leaves. 4) Jodi sees the lube on the kitchen table at Travis’ home. She gets upset. She goes upstairs. This sounds like passive and non-confrontational to me.
  • Rob Roman Avoidance of traumatic triggers, yes. There is great variability as to what are the traumatic triggers and how someone avoids them.
  • Rob Roman I think Jodi used only chopsticks and sporks after that, LOL.
  • Billy Malone Look at Casey Anthony, all the lies with an expiration date.
  • Kitz DC Fair enough Rob Roman, I would agree that those do imply she was non-confrontational. But there was also evidence presented that indicated she was confrontational, former boyfriends, her family. How do you see those instances?
  • Rob Roman Kitz, Being 16 or 17 in a first relationship and not wanting it to end I think is something we all have experienced. Her family called the police on her at age 14, something my parents wouldn’t do even after my sibling at age 13, started a fire in our home that almost killed us all. They did not even call the fire department. So I guess it has something to do with personal experience.
  • Kitz DC I think you’re right Rob Roman, we all do see different things based on our own experiences. I am trying very hard to remove that and look strictly at the evidence in this case. But it is difficult. And btw, my parents did call the cops on me lol, so there you go! lol
  • Rob Roman How old were you?
  • Rob Roman I can’t imagine a parent doing that unless they tried everything else first. This creates a public record and gets all sorts of people involved who do not have the best interest of the family in mind.
  • Kitz DC I wasn’t driving yet so under 16, but I can’t remember how old exactly. And it doesn’t necessarily create a record, in fact with juveniles even more so. She didn’t get arrested did she? I believe the cop just talked to her? Sort of the “scared straight” idea from what i remember her father saying?
  • Kitz DC Exactly Rob Roman, parents do it because they’ve tried everything else and it doesn’t work! The fact that they called them because she was growing pot makes me think she was a wild child and they didn’t know how to handle her.
  • Billy Malone Well like the foreman said, she seemed pretty normal until Travis came along.
  • Rob Roman Well, maybe he knew them. But, The effect was not that Jodi lied to them from then on, but that she did not trust and confide in her parents after that.
  • Billy Malone The cops are never a help in family matters
  • Billy Malone Brad, no long term friends ? ? Who would admit it in Mormon country. Man you would be in there with her.
  • Rob Roman That’s right. Jodi and Travis had many of the same friends. Who is going to speak of your virtues when you are accused of doing that to their friend?
  • Kitz DC Long term friends? I wouldn’t expect to see any friends from her Travis time. I think she did what a lot of young women do, unfortunately, and that is tie herself and her friendships up with the one she loves – exclusively.
  • Billy Malone Had a friend who needed some heave bail money. No problem until I talked to a defense lawyer who told me you put up that kind of money you will be right in there with him.
  • Rob Roman RIGHT KITZ. She should have had more of an independent life.
  • Rob Roman Billy, that is shades of Jackie Brown, if you know that Tarantino movie.
  • Billy Malone No I didn’t, the lawyer said, not a person on a jury would put up that kind of money to get their own mother out. They’d buy a new car instead. You got to be part of it. Oh he got out a few weeks later after he got a bond reduction.
  • Rob Roman You still get your money back. So what’s the problem? It must have been a huge bail.
  • Billy Malone Yes but there were 2 guys who pulled it off and only one got caught so who is the 2nd. Maybe the guy who put up the bail? ? ? Easy sell to a jury and the feds have a way of making even the best alibi vanish.
  • George Barwood It seems Matt pulled out because of concern for his family after all the threats that were flying about. Juan also had threatened him with perjury charges. I don’t think he was strong enough to testify given the pressure.
  • George Barwood We are getting deep into non-evidence here though, which is against group rules.
  • George Barwood From the updated FAQ:

    Rumours and nonsense not in evidence
    Regurgitating tired old lies that are not in evidence is NOT allowed. People are welcome to discuss the EVIDENCE, but not rumours. I am willing to be flexible about this, but various tired rumours about Tire-slashing, forged letters, squeezed cats, reversal of burden of proof etc. may result in non-supporters being removed from the group.

  • Rob Roman That friend you are speaking of could have been Travis or Dan Freeman or Darryl or who knows? Since we don’t know who called Ms. Arias and at what time, this evidence is meaningless and has no bearing on the case.
  • Rob Roman One more thing before getting back on track. Sandra was trying to be helpful in providing this information to the police. Let that be a lesson to all of us. Call an attorney.
  • Billy Malone Have to say for a girl that seemed pretty smart, Jodi sure did a lot of dumb things. Like skirt chasers have a really poor track record of be good soul mates.
  • James Chester It’s easy to pick out examples that seem to not make a lot of sense and then point to them and announce “She’s innocent”! And it is indeed impossible for anyone in a case like this, with no witness to the events, to 100% say “this was not self defence” hence the burden that the prosecution has.

    Look at it this way. Can an atheist disprove the existence of God? No. This is because we cannot prove what caused the big bang and why consciousness exists without matter. Those that believe assume a god is responsible but do so without evidence. The very basis of faith.

    In this case there is a lot of things that make no sense from the prosecution’s side. The forensic explanation of how the crime occurred has to be pieced together but given the crime scene was partially cleaned it will be only so accurate. For example, you have a jigsaw puzzle but only half the pieces. You finish it and it looks like a cottage but perhaps it is a fishing lodge? Or a pub?

    Even with missing pieces you will be somewhat close to the answer, This is why it is easy for someone assuming innocence to find something inconsistent and highlight it as proof of self defence. The prosecution have to put together a case which effectively makes the jury members believe the defendants story on faith alone. The defence do the same, but flip it. Notice Nurmi during his closing argument (which was very good, by the way) simply try and bring in a factor of “you’re going to have to assume a lot of the prosecution’s allegations, which you can’t do. Better to go for manslaughter”.

    The fact is that it is a very straight forward murder case. Just the act of cutting someone’s throat means that whoever does it intends for the victim to die. Most of what was said in this case was irrelevant to that very fact. Whether Jodi likes it or not, she decided that Travis must die. It’s staggering that her defence attorneys did not discuss in greater detail her state of mind at the time, rather than the “uhh. I forgot”

  • George Barwood James ” she decided that Travis must die”

    Yes, but the ONLY question in this case is WHY.

    Was it because she was frightened?

    Or was it because she was angry, jealous or wanted to steal Travis gun?

    That is what a self-defense case is all about. WHY.

  • Billy Malone Motive, JM makes it sound like it was because Travis was having sex with everyone but Jodi. And for this she meticulously kills him very slowly taking minutes to make him suffer. Then she kind of speeds things up near the end.
  • James Chester But then you are assuming that it was self defence. Remember that “why” is rarely a factor in a trial. “Who” and “When” are crucial whilst “Why” is a luxury.

    We have the who or when here, and a difference in opinion unto the why. But while Martinez has the covert trip, the gas cans (I know there is a difference of opinion on here) The robbery of the gun, the lack of injuries to her, the clean up, the alibi, the e-mails to Travis, the letters and gifts to his family, her ever changing statements and stories, the secret messages and probably more, Jodi had nothing but allegations which she had a hard time backing up.

    You may say that she has no burden to fill and this is true but given the mountain she had to climb, it’s difficult to see it any other way. I have an exercise which focuses very much on how irrelevant “why” can be.

    Let’s say you own a dog, you bake a cake, leave it on a table to cool, and then decide to go out but put out some dog food so it doesn’t go hungry. You go out and then return, to find the cake eaten, with fur in the remains, and cake all around your dogs mouth. However, the dog food you put out hasn’t been touched. You have the “Who” (Dog) and “When” (The time you were out) but the “Why” is more vague. Why would the dog go for the cake when he had food to eat? Why did he not eat both? Why eat the cake when it’s food is more easily available? It’s so strange and unless the dog explains why, you’ll never know for certain.

    You can spend a long time debating the “Why” but without success. And ultimately it often doesn’t matter or change the cold hard facts.

  • George Barwood James In this case, as explained in opening arguments (although at least one juror failed to “get it”, as evidenced by a question), the ONLY (important) question for the jury was WHY, given that Jodi admitted killing Travis.

    Of course Juan put forward a VERY circumstantial case, based on the stolen gun, Jodi lying to cops, changing her Car from Red to White and lying to the car hire person… those sort of things.

    And then, Juan attempted to refute Jodi’s explanation, by cross examination, and especially using the testimony of Dr Horn, and also Amanda Webb.

    And then Jodi attempted to refute the testimony of Dr Horn, using the autopsy report and Dr Geffner’s testimony.

    But finally, Dr Horn insisted there was a “typo” in his autopsy report.

    I am not debating, I am explaining the legal case, and why I don’t believe the result was correct.

  • Billy Malone And it is us to JM to prove with clear and convincing evidence the why. Convincing it was but clear it was not. Hey if my GF is not in the shower with me I know what she is doing. Checking my cell phone &/or computer for #’s or e mails she is unfamiliar with. Yeah, It’s trust but verify.
  • James Chester Firstly, it’s rare to have a murder case with direct evidence. Secondly I think it’s unlikely that Martinez would of asked them to focus on a motive. I imagine the defense may have done though (I don’t think I ever watched them, I only reviewed the case through others and then watched testimony and closing arguments over the course of last year and early this year)
  • George Barwood James The defense explained it in opening arguments (of course).
  • Billy Malone Yeah but as best I can remember JM does not going to why, only that she plans it all out. Thus James struck a chord
  • James Chester Yup. The least surprising thing, that.

    So Martinez has the How and When gift wrapped to him and all he has to do is present to the court why it’s likely that she planned it or made a decision to kill him.

    The defence could only focus on the motive for it which is always an unenviable position.

    If you steal a bottle of whiskey from a store because someone forced you to do it would you still be guilty of shoplifting? Yes though the punishment may be mitigated down.

    Even assuming Jodi was abused by Travis is that not still murder if you then cut his throat? I’m afraid so. Though again, the punishment could be mitigated down.

  • Billy Malone He has the who, the how & the when but sidestep the why and let the DP qualified jury fill in the blank.
  • James Chester Yeah Billy Malone that more or less is the case now she’s convicted. It depends if they think there was some level of abuse.

    I think Travis did mess Jodi around so while the conviction is just, a chance of freedom in the future doesn’t seem unreasonable. But then I live in Finland and we don’t do the DP here!

  • Billy Malone Well here it’s all about money and as you know the taxpayers have spent over 2 million dollars on the defense alone. A total rip-off because there was no real defense. Just a bunch of kickbacks.
  • James Chester I’m unfamiliar with the system in the US. Will she now owe the taxpayer that money? In the UK for example, any legal aid must be paid back unless you’re cleared of charges.
  • George Barwood James Chester It’s public funds, the defense team is public defenders, Jodi doesn’t have that kind of money – but she has started raising money to help with her appeal.
  • George Barwood Or you can buy a wristband here:

    I did!

  • George Barwood Here is mine ( I am wearing it now )

    George Barwood's photo.
  • Billy Malone With what? Jodi is broke, she doesn’t have any money. As for her legal team it was appointed by the court. Now this is like one of you universities hosting an ice hockey team from the USA to play against your team. If the USA loses the team will be invited back next year all expenses paid but if the win your university will look for a different team.
  • James Chester Ahh I see so funds are put aside as opposed to being claimed.

    Is there much support for her in the US, then? I only ever came across one site that supports her but their take on things were highly subjective.

  • Billy Malone I would say way less than 10% in favor of her
  • George Barwood Recommended sites for supporters: Many very good features, send an e-postcard, donate via paypal, book club etc. Like page…/Jodi-Arias…/218082115004964 Like page

    Open discussion group ( Administered by creator of this site ) and Associated “Like” page Good set of videos and discussion.

    Avoid jodi arias road to acquittal by gods will ( See Jamie B. Bass – con artist )

  • George Barwood The main thing is that the pro-guilt people have the power of HLN and CNN etc. to drive support.

    It’s totally mindless.

  • George Barwood James Chester : you are from Finland? I challenge you to find a place that has better open discussion of the case than here…
  • Billy Malone What about the judge: “The force used may not be greater than reasonably necessary,” Stephens said in regard to self-defense. Horn said she killed him 3 times over.
  • George Barwood Anyway James Chester, you must have some kind of opinion?

    ( Oh, I see you are from Swindon, I go past it several times a month driving to London )

  • James Chester Originally from Swindon. You might have guessed from the name I’m not a native Finn

    This seems fairly open though it’s hard to find a completely neutral platform. To many people who are full of venom on both sides.

    My opinion on the case?

  • James Chester In short I think guilty is about right. It was a classic case of fact versus argument.

    However I don’t think the DP should apply. She should get freedom one day. Nor do I think she is evil.

    I think she probably flipped when the man she loved was seeing other women.

    There is probably a mental condition which didn’t allow her to deal with it rationally. This is why the defense should have spent far more time on her state of mind than baseless allegations.

    Only she truly knows what happened, or course.

  • George Barwood James Well, how about looking at the evidence, rather than guessing? It’s a complex case, can I ask you to read through some posts starting here :

    I would be pleased to answer any questions, as you sound a lot saner than most people who turn up here thinking Jodi guilty!

  • George Barwood If that dives in a bit abruptly, there is an introduction here:
  • James Chester Harsh George!

    My only guessing is to the Motive. My opinion on the conviction is based on facts. (See my posts)

    There is a quote from Ambrose Bierce that I like;

    “There are four kinds of Homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy.”

    In the end, it is still Homicide! Though we can debate her motivation and the sentence, the latter of which I come down on your side (No DP).

  • George Barwood James

    “Only she truly knows what happened, or course.”

    The wonderful thing about this case is that Jodi DOES NOT know what happened!

    So we do need to look at the EVIDENCE… although ultimately it is a mystery precisely what happened.

    But Jodi did give an account of what happened up to the point where she says she was so terrified she can no longer remember.

    So.. the main thing is to decide is whether Jodi’s story COULD be true, and the same thing for the prosecution case.

    An intelligent person after a good amount of study will conclude the answer is YES and NO respectively.

  • George Barwood You can also read about the case at this website:

    which goes into much more detail than the Facebook posts.

  • George Barwood James I also have to warn you that there are many aspects to the Circus and everything about this case that are TOTALLY INSANE.
  • James Chester But that is the problem isn’t it? Many advocates for Jodi will inevitably have to end up starting a sentence with “Jodi said…”

    I have read much of your Wiki and respectfully disagree with most of it. Maybe one day I can author a blog on key points but for now… a question.

    Would you agree the secret messages Jodi sent to unknown persons damage her credibility?

  • George Barwood James Chester Jodi’s credibility is zero – so it cannot be damaged further… you need to look at EVIDENCE. That does include her testimony of course, but you should take that as the defense CASE not something to be believed because Jodi is trustworthy.
  • George Barwood You may do better to start with the prosecution case, and realise that it is bonkers, to use an English word.
  • Rob Roman James Chester I would not agree. Do you notice that people like Brad Justda want to remain anonymous and people on both sides of this issue have secret and private groups on facebook? Jodi cannot meet privately with anyone. Jodi had no way of meeting with her witnesses and she was desperate to communicate. Imagine trying to defend yourself from behind bars where yo have no access to even your own witnesses. So the secret messages do not damge her credibility to me.
  • George Barwood This article alleges the Italian justice system is Insane, but it has nothing on Juan Martinez and the people of Arizona!…

  • George Barwood ( I have to admit Jodi had a bit more than a sex life… )
  • Rob Roman James Chester I think it’s perfectly reasonable to have a gun lying around. If you don’t fire it you have no need for ammo or a cleaning kit. Travis had many secrets from everybody and we do know that for a fact.
  • James Chester That leads me to my second question. If the jury felt she had no credibility and removed her testimony then what is she left with? Specifically relating to what was presented at trial?

    I agree that Martinez is too hysterical. With exception of Samuels and some parts of Jodi’s testimony he was too hot headed.

  • George Barwood James The physical evidence!

    The defense didn’t make much use of it..

    But for example, the Camera takes two photos that practically prove Jodi is innocent!

  • George Barwood A basic question for you James : the Camera takes a photo of the shower ceiling, then 62 seconds later a picture near the bedroom end of the Hallway.

    How did the Camera move if there was a fight going on?

  • James Chester Rob Roman Regarding the message. Is that according to her?

    It’s possible he had a gun but that’s just it. It’s only possible. The prosecution can never prove a negative. The jury can only decide one version of events from the other.

  • James Chester George. Remember I’m on the side of “I don’t know”.

    You could argue that it was kicked there during a fight or that Travis inspected the camera before pursuing her and took it part way. Or you could argue that she wanted to take a photo of her deed as some allege.

    Much of what happened is shrouded in mystery and every account, from the media to bloggers, tend to build bridges on behalf of Jodi or the prosecution.

    In relation to the photos doesn’t the in focus picture of Travis sitting down in the shower and the photo of him lying injured coupled with her lack of injury after the event more back up the prosecution case? Maybe.

    I’m on the side of “I don’t know” and focus on the rather more serious matters that she couldn’t explain away.

  • George Barwood “You could argue that it was kicked there during a fight”

    Seriously? Why are they playing football with a Camera during a bloody murder? Isn’t this rather absurd?

    I’m glad you are at least in the “don’t know” camp, but I encourage you to study the evidence more carefully.

    The question of Dr Horn’s testimony, refuted on the last day of the trial, is crucial.

    But there are many refutations of the prosecution gunshot last theory, and it is a serious matter.

    How does the lack of injury to Jodi prove anything, that is wooly thinking. Travis didn’t have a knife did he? He could have been trying to choke her most likely, or get her in a wrestling hold. Why speculate?

  • James Chester I absolutely don’t want to speculate. However much of what happened is just that.

    You can only find the evidence of a particular point of view if you look for it.

    I have no clue how the camera ended up where it is. And I’m not going to pretend that it matters. Just because there is a question as to the specifics it doesn’t automatically mean that Jodi’s story holds more weight. Read up about the “god of gaps” way of thinking.

    You build a bridge for her in saying she may have no injury due to him attempting to choke her but it’ll never replace a certain logic that exists within this case.

    But ultimately there is one question which is very, very important.

    Cutting his throat. Does that make her criminally responsible given the way self defence is defined?

  • George Barwood James “Cutting his throat. Does that make her criminally responsible given the way self defence is defined?”

    No. It is of course permissible to kill in self-defense.

  • George Barwood It is not whether Jodi’s story holds up, it is a question of whether Juan’s does…
  • Kitz DC I struggle with the overkill too James Chester. Overkill seems more crime-of-passion than self-defense. Although we don’t know what happened precisely, we do know the result. The defense also wanted the jury to think crime-of-passion too I believe, in their closing.
  • James Chester Yeah it makes me wonder why they didn’t ask for this at the start and focus more on Jodi’s state of mind.

    The self defence story only holds up if you go searching for evidence in the unknowns which is the basis of the arguments for her. I encourage everyone to read up on “the god of gaps” way of reasoning.

  • Kitz DC I will James Chester, thank you!
  • Rob Roman The overkill can be four things. It could be a cold premeditated murder, or it could have been done out of the desperation and chaos of a murder plan gone wrong, or it could be a sudden heat of passion overkill, or it could be an act of overkill done in an altered state of mind out of extreme fear. I believe the first two theories speak for the prosecution and the second two speak for the defense. Don’t you agree?
  • George Barwood Rob Or there could be NO overkill at all..
    As Richard Speights explained
  • Rob Roman Okay, George, how could it be no overkill at all? If Travis fought right up to the point where his throat was cut and he was standing at that time? Is that what you mean?
  • Rob Roman I know Richard Speights did make the argument that Travis could have been standing at the time his throat was cut.
  • George Barwood “Travis fought right up to the point where his throat was cut…”

    Yes. None of the wounds apart from the cut throat would have stopped him attacking her. No overkill.

  • George Barwood I will not speculate on whether Travis was standing, but I think more likely he had Jodi pinned to the floor, trapped.
  • George Barwood I think it is a fight that due to circumstance, Jodi could not escape, and Travis didn’t want Jodi to escape, for whatever reason.
  • George Barwood A bit like a bull-fight.
  • Billy Malone James the prosecution is required to prove a negative when the defendant claims self defense. Not all that difficult is they can prove it was premeditated.
  • Becky Atkinson TA is a big man.. He could of had Jodi around the neck chokeing her again.. Jodi dont even kno what happened at the end of the hall.. she only heard the knife clink to the floor in the bathroom.. I think that’s how she said it.
  • George Barwood BTW James, did you realise the stolen gun was a .25 but the ammunition was wrong? So a red herring there.
  • Becky Atkinson JM took the jurors mind off of what they was suppose to be thinking about with his yelling. but most of the jurors wanted death for Jodi.. Remember the juror that said she was sorry to the Alexander fanily.. She wasnt showing simpathy to them.. she was sorry she didnt get Jodi put to death.
  • James Chester George. If that were the case why was this not presented at trial?

    Becky Atkinson “Jodi remembers this” You accept these things because she told you?

  • George Barwood ” If that were the case why was this not presented at trial?”

    Well that’s a very interesting question!

    You mean the ammo not matching?

    Well, the thing is, the jury could then have gone for Juan’s felony murder theory in that case, “Jodi killed Travis while stealing his gun”.

    I don’t know!!!

  • Becky Atkinson i wasnt there James.. was you?
  • George Barwood It’s not unusual, look up Francis Newton (innocent woman executed in Texas), or Diane Downes (in prison 30 years, Cartidge casing didn’t match )…
  • George Barwood In the US, they don’t have to bother with details like that to execute you or lock you up for life…
  • Rob Roman That’s a question for the prosecution. Why didn’t they present evidence that the bullet type (round nose) and the bullet brand were different than the 8 rounds in Jodi’s Grandfather’s gun?They didn’t present this, because IMO it goes against their theory of the case. Well, at least one of their theories, anyways!
  • George Barwood I think Jodi knew she was up against it, so maybe kept something in reserve…
  • Becky Atkinson james chester if you are doubting everything thats said. why did you come here? just asking
  • Rob Roman No, Becky, I think everyone is invited if they have an open mind and if they don’t believe Jodi should be executed. I believe those are the minimum requirements.
  • Becky Atkinson lm not arguing about it James.. sorry.
  • James Chester So are you saying that the defence never brought up these points to support his felony murder charge? Like some sort of conspiracy? It’s more
    likely that it was looked into but not good for her case.

    And George if she is keeping in that reserve then that is one hell of a risk! I would say it is more of a non issue.

    Becky Atkinson I like to debate and I am a student of the law. I’m one of a apparently rare breed that feels the guilty verdict is sound, but doesn’t want her to get the DP.

  • James Chester No problem I respect your opinion even if I disagree with it.
  • Rob Roman Why didn’t the defense bring up points about the ammo? Who knows. Maybe the issue was settled pre-trial, maybe they didn’t want to ask questions they didn’t know the answer to. We don’t know why the issue of the ammo being a different brand and style was not brought up.
  • James Chester So if you don’t know, why bring it up as a reason why the prosecution are wrong? Is it equally more viable that it was dealt with outside the public sphere?
  • Rob Roman So, James, are you saying that the recovered bullet was a hollow point bullet? Do you want to say that Jodi’s Grandfather or father had Winchester .25 Auto ammunition? It’s an element of doubt for me. I also want to illustrate the point that the only commonality between the gun stolen and the gun used in the crime is the caliber. Sure, you can say that Jodi bought some different ammo. But that’s speculation.
  • James Chester So it’s back to the basic issue of “we don’t know”

    The jury were given two accounts.

    – The gun was stolen from Jodi’s shed. She brought it with her.

    – it was Travis’

    Correct me if I was wrong but there was never any testimony casting doubt over the prosecutions account, just a complete denial of it.

    The jury can accept one account or the other or reject both. I’m very much focused on what is presented at trial but this really only deals within the context of speculation outside of the court room, which is what this forum does not permit.

    23 hours ago · Edited · Like · 4
  • Billy Malone The judge instructed the jury about any overkill and Hors stated she killed Travis 3 times over. So who cares where the gun came from
    23 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Rob Roman First, the gun was stolen from the grandfather’s drawer in his bedroom, not from a shed. I believe. Jodi could have stolen the gun and the gun could have been Travis’. Both are possible. It’s difficult to prove a negative. Instead, i look at the evidence that Jodi stole the gun. There isn’t any. You can make an inference that she stole it based on the caliber match, but that’s it.
  • Rob Roman If you don’t know, then the benefit of the doubt goes to the defendant, her life is on the line. This is a death penalty case, you better damn well know for certain.
  • James Chester Also true. Even if you assume the prosecution got it wrong over the order of the injuries and/or the origins of the gun Jodi still has the two injuries that ultimately killed Travis.
    23 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Billy Malone JM stated she went there with a gun and a knife
  • Billy Malone And via the Judge you are allowed only one
  • Rob Roman Billy Malone, I can’t understand what you are saying. We should discuss one thing at a time. There was never any dispute that Jodi killed Travis. That’s not what the trial was about.
  • Billy Malone No but she didn’y
  • Billy Malone She only gets one kill via the Judge. Dr horn stated she killed him 3 times
  • Rob Roman Now Billy is talking about overkill vs. self-defense. That’s a separate issue. Jodi claims she was in an altered state of mind, so the overkill makes sense under those conditions.l
  • Billy Malone The jury had to follow instructions
  • Rob Roman Dr. Horn was wrong. You can only kill someone once. What you say, Billy, is also wrong. Dr. Horn never claimed Jodi killed Travis three times. That’s more B.S. form Juan Martinez. Dr. Horn claimed that the gunshot was post mortem, so how can that be a third kill? Dr. Horn claimed travis was killed once, by loss of blood.
  • James Chester Well Rob Martinez has circumstantial evidence and Jodi just has a claim. It is still more.

    Whilst benefit of the doubt can be given, it is up to the jury. If they feel that the prosecution make a claim with no evidence and an defendant also does, the defendant should get the benefit. Not much of that here though.

    23 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Billy Malone Rob, who says Dr Horn is wrong? Has to be at least another DR. That’s why I keep stating there was no defense.
  • Rob Roman You have to make a distinction about whether we are talking only about what was presented to the jury or about what we know now. It’s up to the jury to decide the facts and apply the law. But I have objective evidence that some did not understand the facts, and we have video evidence that shows without question that some did not understand the law.
  • Rob Roman I’m saying Dr. Horn is wrong. Many people who believe Jodi is guilty and almost all Jodi supporters also think Dr. Horn is wrong. “Has to be another DR.” I can’t understand your meaning. “There was no defense” I can’t understand your meaning.
  • Billy Malone Rob, if the medical examiner stated that Travis was killed 3 times over (3 fatal wounds) and the judge tells you you are allowed to use only enough force necessary in self defense, what possible verdict could you come up with. Horn’s statement had to be naturalized and it wasn’t
    23 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Rob Roman Neutralized, you mean. That’s a valid point, Billy. But I repeat, that not only does Jodi have a mental illness, she also claims to have been in an alternate state of mind. So maybe the defense was not the proper defense. Dead is dead. She killed him as soon as possible. Why can a person with a gun shoot someone 8 times and claim self – defense? Dr. Horn testified that the gun shot would have been ultimately fatal had there been no medical intervention. The gunshot wound was not a fatal wound. Furthermore, Dr. Horn stated it was done AFTER he was dead, a lie. You can’t kill someone after they’re dead.
  • Billy Malone Hey the cops in NY shot at an unarmed civilian 50 times and hit him 41. Justified. That cop in NC shot at a guy 12 times and hit him 10 times. Once again, gun unarmed ruled justified. You got to be in fear for your life but the judge in Jodi’s case once the threat is no longer a threat you can’t go any further. Just no standard in the justice system
  • Rob Roman Yes Billy, I agree. But did the prosecution prove that Travis at some point was no longer a threat? She claims she was in fear for her life and she took a life. How many fatal wounds makes no difference. I see your point. The defense should have addressed the Arizona self-defense law in detail.
  • Rob Roman James Chester, Jodi was not really familiar with guns. Why go through all the trouble to set up a robbery and then plan a knife attack? There is no evidence that Jodi stole the gun other than inference. In addition, I did not hear at trial that the recovered bullet was a hollow point or that Jod’si family had Winchester .25 Auto ammunition. That’s what I’m using as circumstantial evidence to counter the prosecution’s circumstantial evidence in regard to the gun. Isn’t that enough for reasonable doubt?
  • Billy Malone Be honest, with a DP qualified jury would it have made and difference? For 2 million dollars they could have put on a much better show (the defense)
  • Rob Roman I was waiting for the prosecution to present that evidence at rebuttal, about the ammo. As a juror, I would have concluded that I could not conclude that Jodi stole the gun and brought it to the crime scene beyond a reasonable doubt.
  • Billy Malone Rob, fair enough but you still got the overkill problem to contend with. No one questioned Dr Horn.
  • Billy Malone So that’s when she delivers this shot to him. Somebody that’s already dead. So she’s killed him three times over. Is that enough premeditation? JM
  • Rob Roman The defense was put at a disadvantage by the sudden change in the order of injuries. They had no budget to get an expert to refute it. The defense had a pretty good case, IMO. Overkill to me is not a problem. She kept going until he stopped moving. I think it’s worse if she just stabbed him once in the heart and left him to bleed to death.
    22 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Billy Malone No budget, they went through over 2 million dollars.
  • Rob Roman Too bad! The prosecution and the Alexander family are the ones who refuse to take the death penalty off the table, even though the chances are My-Tee Slim. Death penalty cases are expensive. If you knew the facts, you would know that the defense budget for witnesses was spent.
    21 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • Lisa Schulein What I posted was circumstantial evidence which is allowed as evidence since most murders dont have pictures or video….also he was also fighting for his life by grabbing the knife….if he was so abusive why didn’t he hit her in any way while fighing for his life? Again this is Jodis words….also why drive 1000 miles eachway to see your abuser…..DV victims try to get away and once they do they dont go back unless they have children together and have joint custody or the father has visitation…..she didn’t. You go by Jodis testimony….why everytime I remind you what she says that doesn’t make sense you delete it…..please also google Gabby Gifford if you dont know about her. She was shot in the head and survived…but was incapacitated and in a coma for months. She is still also not the same nor ever will…..
    12 hours ago · Like · 4
  • Kitz DC Is that a fact Rob Roman? That the defense could not spend any more money on witnesses? I’ve not seen that before in a M1 trial so I’d like to know more about it?
    11 hours ago · Like · 5
  • Billy Malone That money was just squandered away.
  • Billy Malone Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, told ABC News today that he plans to file a motion to recoup as much as $300,000 in legal costs spent on defending Zimmerman. The state spent $900,000. Usually runs about 3 to 1. What did Jodi get for 2 mil +?
    9 hours ago · Like · 1
  • James Chester Lisa has it in one. This is somewhat of a fact finding thing.

    Almost all of the facts in this case paint a bad picture for Jodi. Anything that doesn’t make sense or has an aroma of mystery in which we can speculate forever over doesn’t mean that Jodi was telling the truth. It just means.. “I dunno”

    Justice in the industrial world is dealt with facts. No facts – No evidence – No prosecution.

    Concerning Dr. Horn… I’m too lazy to re-watch it but did he not explain that the reason he felt the gunshot was last due to the lack of blood in the wound? He also said that the inaccuracy on his report was due to a typo. Sloppy, but not really proof of a conspiracy against Jodi.

    An open mind means a lack of Bias, and assuming that he is a liar means once again having to build bridges.

    7 hours ago · Like · 5
  • George Barwood ” He also said that the inaccuracy on his report was due to a typo.”

    Right. So was this credible?
    This is the key to the whole case.

  • George Barwood The answer is that Juan’s theory with gunshot last is ridiculous and wrong. Dr Horn misinterpreted the fracture where he though the gunshot penetrated the brain. In fact it deflected.
  • James Chester If it was the thing that killed him it would be massive. But it’s not. In both versions it didn’t kill him. If the jury decided to not use this in their deliberations I’m not sure it would make a blind bit of difference.

    In terms of his credibility in my mind it doesn’t make much difference as he’s a professional rendering an opinion and I heard no reason why he would want to edit anything to hurt her case. But then was there much need considering Travis’ injuries?

    7 hours ago · Like · 7
  • George Barwood James Chester

    In your post you refer to

    “very strong evidence”

    of Jodi’s guilt. What is this evidence?
    The 3rd gas can?

    6 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood James Chester

    The point of Dr Horn’s testimony is that IF TRUE then Jodi is CERTAINLY guilty, it totally refutes her testimony, and not on something remote from the crime (like the gas cans), but her testimony about what happened in the bathroom.

    Can you not see that?

    6 hours ago · Like · 1
  • James Chester The list is fairly long. The third gas can is one in a tapestry. Martinez hammered it home during closing because it proved given his rebuttal case that she did not tell the truth.

    Why does it prove it? Because the defence offered no reply to this. Remember this is as good as an acceptance of the opposite side. Therefore the jury must assume the prosecutions side, as it is the only given evidence. They can’t build bridges for her, which I’ve mentioned consistently.

    I know you may argue that the store moved but this does not cover the transactions when she was with burns.

    Add to that a history of misleading the detectives, her covering up the scene, writing to his family and gran, his injuries and her lack of them, the covert trek through the state, acting normal with Burns, the secret messages etc etc.

    It leads to two versions in which one is based on facts and good reasoning (though imperfect, like most murder cases) and the other is without evidence and mostly built around the testimony of a source with (quoting you here) “zero” credibility.

    I just don’t see how a jury is able to make he stretches required to even begin to look at this as anything but a pre-med.

    6 hours ago · Like · 2
  • George Barwood “the covert trek through the state”

    How was it covert?
    She switched her phone on long before she was back on the alibi route.
    What evidence is there that it was covert?

  • James Chester I don’t think you need to be an MD to come to the conclusion that cutting an individual’s throat will result in their death. It makes the gun issue no more than a sidetrack, gunner that in both versions it didn’t kill him.

    Even in Jodi’s version he bolted right up, and if you believe that you then have to believe that he was able to go charging after her as per her testimony.

    6 hours ago · Like · 3
  • George Barwood How is leaving a camera with pictures of herself at the scene “covert” ?
  • George Barwood The gun track refutes Jodi’s testimony, if it is correct.
    Can you not see that?
    6 hours ago · Like · 1
  • James Chester But she didn’t. She deleted them and then flung the camera in the wash.
    6 hours ago · Like · 3
  • George Barwood But deleting pictures doesn’t make any real difference.
  • George Barwood The only evidence that the diversion to Mesa was covert was the gas cans.
  • George Barwood And the only evidence for that is the return of the 3rd gas can.
  • George Barwood But why would Jodi lie about how many gas cans she used?
    That would be senseless.
    If she really used three, she would testify to that, and it wouldn’t prove anything at all.
    6 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson James you talk like Jodi knew what she was doing?
  • George Barwood So there is no evidence of premeditation at all.
    It’s all nonsense.
    6 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson Excalty George .. none what so ever..
  • James Chester The track of the bullet? If you were to accept the prosecution side then yeah it would…. but he wasn’t just shot.

    She didn’t just delete them, she put the camera in the wash.

    Well the receipts that suggested that she filled three at the petrol station is also there.

    6 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Becky Atkinson James Chester, if you drove 1000 miles are you going to kill someone?
  • Becky Atkinson If you was going to kill someone would you leave a paper trail? NO!! You would pay cash ..
  • James Chester I aka the same question back. It’s true, why would she lie about that?

    A law professor I know is always insistent that the lies that make no sense on paper often very much reveals the bigger truths.

    6 hours ago · Like · 2
  • George Barwood Juan wanted to imply the whole trip was secret.
    But that’s also nonsense, because she told people about it, she made phone calls, she borrowed gas cans, she kept receipts, there were financial records.
    6 hours ago · Like · 1
  • James Chester Becky Atkinson You are assuming without question that her mind was not right. I personally would not drive 1000 miles at all

    And you are both missing something big. Only her trip through Arizona is suspicious. No one knew about it, and there was no paper trail for that at all.

    6 hours ago · Like · 2
  • George Barwood “It’s true, why would she lie about that?”

    The only thing that makes sense is that it wasn’t a lie, and Amanda Webb was mistaken.

    Amanda Webb DEFINITELY was mistaken when she stated that she worked at the store where Jodi bought the gas can.

    She did that on the basis of the store number, proving that she knew nothing about the store relocation.

    Given her obvious lack of knowledge of the history of Walmart in Salinas, it’s obvious she made some kind of mistake.

  • George Barwood Remember, Amanda Webb didn’t find any evidence… she just claimed to have looked and failed to find something, which is a very unreliable claim.

    That’s like claiming to have discovered extra-terrestrial life because somebody saw a funny shaped cloud.

    6 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson No James ..your missing something big.. read a little more.. and yes i would drive that far if i had the money..
  • James Chester But the defence ever offered any retort. Surely they would have done similar research.

    Plus she did buy enough petrol for three gas cans when visiting Burns… Are we meant to think she held the pump in mid air and racked up the exact same charges that would constitute a gas cans? Come on

    6 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3
  • George Barwood I call it the “search for the Femme-Fatale”.

    It has been going on for hundreds of years, but nobody has found a definite example…

  • Becky Atkinson some folks maybe would fly.. but jodi didnt.. doesnt mean she went there to kill TA.
  • George Barwood The defence has very limited investigative powers, and could do nothing. Or were too lazy to try and do anything.

    But they may have felt it was better to leave a 100% sure thing that was grounds for appeal.

    And hoped the jury could see Amanda Webb was not reliable.

  • George Barwood “Plus she did buy enough petrol for three gas cans when visiting Burns… ”

    Actually she didn’t …

    That’s another problem with Juan’s gas can theory.

    You have to assume one of the gas cans he lent Jodi already had some gas in it.

    6 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson So what if no one knew about it James Chester, doesnt mean she was going to murder TA.
  • James Chester I don’t think driving 1000 miles is evidence for or against her. I hope no-one tries to argue that.
    6 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • George Barwood Ok, so now you understand at least how weak and senseless the evidence for premeditation really is…
    6 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson I drove all the way to Texas one time from South Carolina..
  • George Barwood Then think – Jodi is meant to sleep with Travis, have sex, all while intending to murder him…

    That is the very definition of a “Femme-Fatale” !

  • Becky Atkinson Dont kno how many miles that is, but i drove it..
  • James Chester The very thought of defence attorneys purposely holding back evidence for an appeal where they will have a burden to fulfil seems unwise and incredibly incompetent.
    5 hours ago · Like · 5
  • Becky Atkinson Sometimes in the long run i feel the defense knows what they are doing… fingers crossed.. i hope.
  • George Barwood James Do you see how fantastically implausible all this actually is?

    An abused pizza-waitress, with no record of violence, turns into a psycho premeditated sex killer?

    5 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood Why do you think Jodi was such a famous trial?
    It’s because she is such a scary figure from fiction.
  • James Chester Becky Atkinson is that far? If my US geography is any good then Texas is way south?

    I suppose the media will make out she is a femme fatale in the future. Weird label.

    You’re assuming she was abused… And remember the “why” is a luxury.

  • George Barwood ” Jodi was well-scrubbed, perfumed, and no doubt clothed in Victoria’s Secret, or some similar lingerie. Plus, she had the audacity to have sex with her victim prior to killing him. Then she proceeded to hook-up with another fellow directly after the carnage. Surely this deserves bonus points! Let’s face it, Jodi would eat the Manson girls’ brains for lunch. Compared to Jodi, they were stoned bush leaguers.”
  • George Barwood Jodi does come in for some criticism though:

    “We have no choice, therefore, but to rank Jodi Arias considerably lower than we would prefer on this account, simply because she made the aesthetically disastrous decision to use a gun.”

    Perhaps THIS is why Jodi decided to attack with a knife (according to Juan) ?!

  • James Chester Yep. The media went nuts over this trial. Completely uncalled for. But when you have a young, fairly attractive girl and lots of sex I can see why the vultures would circle.
    5 hours ago · Like · 2
  • James Chester Ha! Who knows. Would of been more boring to poison his dinner or kill him in his sleep.
  • George Barwood Juan’s case is a load of tosh that doesn’t fit together in any remotely rational or real world.
  • George Barwood “But when you have a young, fairly attractive girl and lots of sex I can see why the vultures would circle.”

    It’s not JUST that. It’s that she has sex (twice,once with bondage according to the defense) JUST before murdering him with a Gun and a Huge knife concealed in her handbag.

  • George Barwood And she has been planning this for how long? A week? A month? Several months?
  • Becky Atkinson James Chester,1200 miles..
  • Becky Atkinson With Jodi getting lost.. I feel her on that also.. I always take the wrong roads..
  • George Barwood Anyway, the defense have I believe just asked for the contents of this capacious handbag ( even more than capacious than the handbag in which Amanda Knox concealed a huge knife ) to be enumerated…

    I wonder what was in it?

    5 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood Maybe they will find a phial of poison as well?
    5 hours ago · Like · 1
  • James Chester That’s about the length of Finland. Eep!

    It only takes 5 seconds of thinking time, of course.

    I would argue that his side makes more sense than her side. That’s where we differ, obviously.

    The handbag she had on her when she got to Travis’?

  • Becky Atkinson Yeah, JM said TA stood in front of the mirror and let Jodi stab him in the back
  • George Barwood Becky Atkinson “Yeah, JM said TA stood in front of the mirror and let Jodi stab him in the back”

    Eight times!

    Actually, Juan got very confused, and said Jodi stabbed Travis in the stomach at this point… but we know what he meant.

    5 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson Can you imagine a 180 lb man kick boxer man stand there and let someone stab him in the back?
  • Becky Atkinson I mean c’mon..
  • George Barwood And she had cut her finger, so it was hurting, so she could only stab him very feebly…

    Except in fact the wounds are wrong.. they are not stab wounds at all but “chop” wounds (depending on your terminology).

    5 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • Billy Malone Becky are you telling us that you drove 1000 miles just to spend a few hr with your BF?
  • George Barwood At this point James Chester, you should read about many more problems with Dr Horns theory:…

    5 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson No Billy Malone, I spent the night there in Texas, and drove back the next day.. I hated Texas, people there are scary.
  • Becky Atkinson i use to drive alot out of states..
  • George Barwood “But this likely perjury may not have ended with Dr. Horn’s feigned faulty memory, mischaracterization of his own autopsy report, baseless assertions, and phantom bullet passing through an undamaged brain. To bolster the Arias-shot-Alexander-post-mortem scenario, Juan Martinez needed to explain the blood spray pattern in the bathroom sink and countertop. It appears he may have recruited Dr. Horn to create a plausible false explanation.”
  • Billy Malone George I think JM put two nails to hang their hats on. Shep planed it months in advance and once Travis was down and dieing dying she thought about it and finished him off because she wanted him dead.
  • Becky Atkinson Why not Billy Malone, whats wrong with a long drive to another State?
  • Billy Malone Becky,For just a few hrs to spend with someone?, no way for me But that is a yes I take it?
  • George Barwood I think shooting Travis after he was dead is just lunatic!

    I mean it makes a big loud bang!

  • Becky Atkinson i mean for real George Barwood, thats makes no sense at all!
  • Billy Malone Remember in the Casey Anthony trial, RED FLAGS all over the place. Lies with expiration dates. Something is wrong.
  • Becky Atkinson Money talks and Bullshit walks!! Is all i can say.. 2 million and still counting..
  • Billy Malone That’s all the 2 mil did was talk, a lot of hot air.
  • Becky Atkinson Well Jodi tried to fire Nurmi, and Judge wouldn’t have it..
  • Billy Malone I think the trip was secret in that Travis didn’t want Miss Mimi knowing and Jodi didn’t want the guy in SLC knowing. Then you got the Mormons knowing.
    5 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood Jodi did say she switched her phone off to save the battery, but I think she kept it off in Mesa, probably because she didn’t want her new boyfriend calling and asking why she was late…

    So the diversion was a bit secret.

  • Billy Malone The court appoints these shysters and it”s all about indirect kickbacks,
  • Becky Atkinson Question is.. Why did MImi go there with the roomates inside,knock on the door, she had to kno someone was in there, because the cars was there. then she leaves to go and call to get more to come. Makes no sense. then she didnt even kno Jodi’s name on the 911 call.
    5 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Billy Malone And the know someone who knows the garage code. All of them knew Jodi, who’s foolin who? Then the smell with one roommate humpen his GF right next to it.
  • Becky Atkinson i mean for real, they knew that smell wasnt the dog!
  • Becky Atkinson I call that Bullshit walks!!
  • Billy Malone And leaving for days without telling someone to take care of the dog. How did Travis know the roommates would even be around? Who’s foolin who?
  • Becky Atkinson And Who’s being True!….. I think the whole Nation got fooled somehow/somewhere!
  • Billy Malone Just too much watching old Columbo disks I guess. Everything looks so neat and tidy except . . . .. This instant matter is riddled with the ‘EXCEPTS”
  • Kitz DC I loved Columbo!
    3 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Billy Malone Yep just a few routine questions and everything comes unwound. That’s all Flowers had to do and follow up on anything that didn’t sound right. Starting with the two roommates then on to Miss Mimi. Nothing sound right there.
  • Zee Davis

Excellent video for understanding the brain and things like the leptomeninges and the DUra Mater.

Just published on the Cognitive Neuroscience page.
Good night!


The Unfixed Brain
The Unfixed Brain. In this teaching video, Suzanne Stensaas, Ph.D., Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy at the University of Utah, demonstrates the properties and anatomy of an unfixed brain. WARNING: The video contains graphic images, a human brain from a recent autopsy….


Like ·  · Share · 2 hours ago · Edited

Free-for-all Post

Nothing is off-topic here.

  • 4 people like this.
  • Joe Moller How can you have a false account without at least your name and expect anyone to hold a serious conversation and or take anything you say seriously?
  • George Barwood In an open group, I don’t care much about the account, it’s what the person says. Nullius in Verba.

    “It is an expression of the determination of Fellows to withstand the domination of authority and to verify all statements by an appeal to facts determined by experiment.”


    Nullius in verba (Latin for “on the word of no one” or “Take nobody’s word for i…See More
  • George Barwood To help prevent future mis-understanding, I put the following at the bottom of each Step-by-Step post:

    Note: be sure to stay STRICTLY on-topic when commenting on the Step-by-Step posts. Off-topic comments will be removed.

  • George Barwood If you have any issues Kitz DC you can always leave comments here. There is a link in the pinned post.
  • Kitz DC Thank you George Barwood. My “issue” is the intention of this group. I thought it was about support for Jodi Arias, whether one believes in this theory or that theory of the crime. Do I have the wrong group?
  • George Barwood Kitz The group in truth has many purposes. But the most fundamental is this:

    The purpose of the group is to assist Jodi by explaining to people that there is no proof that she killed Travis other than in self-defense, and should therefore have been found not guilty by the jury.

    Also, the description says:
    This group is for
    1. People who believe Jodi Arias is innocent
    2. Open minded people who would like more information
    3. People who think Jodi did not get a fair trial
    4. People who do not agree Jodi should be executed

  • George Barwood Remember Jodi has stated firmly that she will be appealing regardless of the verdict.

    If the verdict is life imprisonment, that actually means risking her life, because she could be sentenced to death after a retrial of the guilt phase.

  • George Barwood The very high stakes created by the death penalty give innocent defendants some very hard choices to make. If you were innocent, would you risk your life to avoid life imprisonment or not?
  • George Barwood Imagine if the State had sought the Death Penalty for David Camm.

    After the first trial, would he have appealed the verdict knowing a second trial could result in a death sentence?

    What about after his second trial, where he was again found guilty?

  • Kitz DC And if fundamentally one disagrees on some of the opinions of others in this group, does that mean one is considered a “troll” and therefore eliminated from the group? Regardless of the individuals desire and/or abilities to support the defendant?
  • George Barwood It’s fine to disagree, but you need to stay on-topic, and not repeat too much.

    Do you know the UK radio show “Just a minute”

    Panel game in which the contestants are challenged to speak for one minute without hesitation, deviation or repetition on any subject that comes up on the cards.

    It’s a bit like that! But NOT the “hesitation” part !

    Panel game in which players must speak for one minute on any subject asked of them
  • Kitz DC If I was innocent, would I risk my life to avoid life imprisonment? Probably. If I was innocent I would continually work to overturn the verdict. I would seek out every single person that could help me achieve that goal, regardless of their agenda.
  • George Barwood In truth the risk for Jodi is minimal, because the State’s case has ZERO actual basis, and in the event of a death sentence at any point, she can appeal to Federal level, away from the corruption in Arizona, as Debra Milke has done.

    But the terrible thing is how slow the process can be. She could spend 10 years or more incarcerated before she is released. That is a terrible system.

    In some ways, she is almost better off with a death penalty, which is a strange thing. Appealing a State life sentence is harder in practical terms than appealing a Death sentence.

  • George Barwood But in fact her appeal is straightforward, and can easily be won, even in a corrupt Arizona court.
  • Kitz DC She needs her own lawyer, not public defenders, to take her appeals as far she can go without giving up. I believe Milke had her own, but I could be mistaken on that. I’m just not confident she will go far without her own lawyer driving it.
  • George Barwood Kitz Jodi does not have the money to have her own lawyer, but I am sure she will try to raise money. It will not be easy at all.

    If she gets a life sentence, she may be smart enough to write an appeal herself, or she may be entitled to a PD at least for Direct appeal, I’m not sure.

    Perhaps her best chance is if a good lawyer will act for her “Pro bono”.

  • George Barwood David Camm was lucky enough to have relations who could rally around and raise probably $2 million dollars to help fund his defense (the State still funded some of the cost). Jodi will not have that option.
  • George Barwood Incidentally, Floyd County are being taken to court because they have not yet PAID the defense lawyers!
  • George Barwood And the Floyd County Auditor is in trouble as well:


    Page 1

    Response from the public access counselor regarding a denied request for public records, page 1.

  • George Barwood For denying access to public records : to wit the costs of David Camm’s prosecution!
  • George Barwood PS Please support James Stone, he is innocent:

    Around 5am on August 10, 1985, a young woman was stabbed twice 40 miles West of…See More
    Community: 352 like this
  • George Barwood ( That’s me of course, it’s the page I created for James )
  • George Barwood I quite like “Free-for-all”
  • Kitz DC I believe she only gets another PD if she is sentenced to death. If she gets LWOP, it’s on her dime. It seems to me the most critical support needed for Jodi Arias is financial. It still costs to appeal convictions, even if you have a lawyer pro bono OR file yourself.
  • George Barwood Kitz I’m not sure it’s quite that simple. In another state I am helping someone who was sentenced to 60 years, but he has been assigned a PD. But actually I am not sure what the position is for Jodi if she gets a life sentence.

    It may be more that the appeal is AUTOMATIC in the event of a death sentence. That means the appeal definitely happens, but I don’t think it’s the case that if Jodi has no money and a life sentence it’s impossible for her to appeal.

    It’s not as simple as that.

  • Kitz DC The James Stone case looks interesting too; what was his sentence?
  • George Barwood James Stone? 101 years I think.
  • Kitz DC It may not be that simple in AZ; I not familiar with their laws or practices for appeals, although I’m learning more and more all the time lol.
  • George Barwood James’ sentence was heavy, considering he was not alleged to have killed anyone, the woman victim made a full recovery.

    But he didn’t even do it, the woman lied out of fear of her real attacker, and he got railroaded.

  • Kitz DC Well I will check out the group George Barwood, thanks. Looks interesting.
  • George Barwood James Stone’s case is closely related to David Camm, it’s the same crooked prosecutor, Stan Faith, that’s how it came up.
  • George Barwood Reminds me, I hadn’t posted a link to the 2 hours Dateline program last Friday on James’ page.

    I have just done that now.

    Video on Former Indiana State Police trooper David Camm arrives home and finds his wife and two children shot to death in their garage.
  • Kitz DC What was Jodi’s bail set at when she was first arrested, anybody know? I can’t seem to find that posted anywhere. I was curious – or was she denied bail?
  • Kitz DC It is odd that nobody could come up with $200K for her; not even her family? I know that’s a ton of money, but do we know if her parents even tried? Seems like one could mortgage their house or business or something to come up with $200K? Anybody have any history on that?
  • Joe Moller Bondsman has to be willing to go on bond. All The money in the world means not a thing without a certified professional Bondsman on the bond.
  • Kitz DC True Joe Moller, but was she considered a flight risk? Well I suppose buying that gun and packing her car (I think I heard that somewhere) might be a factor.
  • Joe Moller Nah. Bondsman wouldn’t be worried about her running. They may not have wanted to put that much of their bond % up. Because the trial would take to long. Proof. I hold a bail bond runners license in NC.
  • Joe Moller Bondsman has to have certain amount of available cash on hand to cover all of their bonds. All accredited Az bondsman could have been maxed out.
  • George Barwood Brad Justda You say there is other circumstantial evidence besides the gas cans.

    I’m not sure what to cover next?

    Jodi changed her hair colour?

    That is something that has frankly always mystified me, I don’t quite know what Juan was arguing.

  • George Barwood Jodi admitted simulating an orgasm in phone sex with Travis?
    So she is guilty of murder? I don’t really get that one either.
  • George Barwood I was just trying to think about addressing any other “proofs” of Juan’s.

    Jodi asked for her car to be changed from a Red one to a White one, and she told the car hire person she wasn’t going far.

    “Then she rents this car, and then takes the white car. And the white car does have some floor mats in it, and she takes this white car and says I’m only going to drive around here. Again she lies, makes that up. It’s like a field of lies that has sprouted around her as she sat on that witness stand. It’s every time she spat something out, another lie, another weed would grow around her.”

    Juan does have a way with words! But I’m afraid this is really not evidence at all, it’s just taking a microscope to things and making something out of it.

    Also, Juan’s argument is improper : certainly Jodi lied to the car hire person about how far she was going, but that’s a very different thing to lying on the witness stand!

    I mean, when I hire a car, I couldn’t care less about the colour. But people are not all the same. Why she said she was going on a short trip – well I guess she was worried there would be some problems or extra charges if she said she was going a long way. But whatever the reason, her trip was not in the least bit secret, numerous people knew about it, there were numerous financial and mobile phone records of it, lots of people knew about it, etc,etc. So you really cannot make a case that Jodi’s trip was secret by cherry picking evidence. Well, obviously Juan did – but it’s not VALID proof of murder!

  • George Barwood Ok, here it is

    Step 6. Weak arguments

    Step 6: Weak arguments I am not going to go through ALL of Juan’s vague argumen…See More
  • George Barwood

    Step 7. The Camera and other scene evidence Given the evidence in Steps 1 to 4,…See More
  • George Barwood Brad Can I ask you, is there any significant evidence that Jodi killed Travis other than in self-defense that I have not yet covered in the Step-by-Step guide?

    Also, have you yet taken a firm position on gunshot first or last?

  • Randall Stevens I noticed in the Step 7 thread you are discussing the blood on Jodi’s feet. I believe she testified about having scrapes/scratches all over her ankles when she was in the desert. Has it been discussed as to how she got those injuries?
  • George Barwood ” blood on Jodi’s feet”

    Actually Randall. it wasn’t in the original post, but I’m ok with other prosecution points being discussed here. However, I don’t think this is one of them. How does that prove Jodi guilty (or innocent) ?

  • Hooch E. Hooch Randall – if she was barefoot like she claimed to be that would make sense that she would have scrapes and scratches if she walking near cactuses. but why would she be walking in the dark in the desert with no shoes?
  • Erik Forsgren Thank you I really enjoy being a part of this team
  • George Barwood I just remembered an interesting comment I saw when watching the David Camm documentary : defense lawyers actually do not want innocent clients, because it is such tough and thankless work defending them.

    I think it was Mike McDaniels that said it.

  • George Barwood Erik Forsgren
    Here is a motion Jodi wrote for herself asking for a change of attorney:

  • Erik Forsgren What strikes me in the accusation act of JA is the constant change from murder mode into sex mode and then murder mode again. In other words I can’t imagine how JA could make that swift of mode. If initially she was in a murder mode how could she suddenly swift into sex mode and from there to murder mode. That is the reason why I can’t accept the premeditated murder. To me it was either a murder of passion or a litigation that led to murder of the second degree or possibly killing in self defence but never premeditated murder that gives you the death penalty.
    15 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood You know Detective Flores actual mentions “Fatal Attraction” in his interview with Jodi.

    The prosecution case is entirely fictional. Well, there are so many prosecution cases, even Felony murder, accusing Jodi or stealing Travis’ gun, and killing him in the process.

  • Erik Forsgren Yes. What I would like to know is to whom did the murder weapon belong. And the theft of arms made at the grandparents house. Was this theft really linked to JA. Which weapon was used in killing TA?
  • George Barwood Erik You mean the gun? The gun was an old gun Travis kept on a shelf.

    The gun stolen in Yreka before is a red herring ( wrong ammunition ).

  • George Barwood That’s why Juan Martinez argued for Felony murder based on Jodi stealing Travis’ gun.
  • George Barwood I mean he argued for BOTH.

    She brought the gun. If she didn’t bring the gun, and it was Mr. Alexander’s, then you have a burglary and that implicates felony murder, because she came and she took his gun. If what she’s saying is she that stole his gun, did she have his permission to take that gun? According to her it was his gun. If she took his gun, then that’s a burglary and if during the burglary somebody dies, ie stealing the gun then that’s premeditated murder.

  • George Barwood And also, many Jury members voted for BOTH, when they were meant to be alternatives.. it was utter chaos!
  • Erik Forsgren Thank you. But this was the first link in the prosecutor’ arguments of a premeditated murder. So I was right then. I think the prosecutor began his investigation in the wrong end. He should have started at the crime scene.
  • Erik Forsgren Felony murder sounds like a red herring too, since the most plausible explanation of using that gun is self defence. She saw that gun and used it in self defence
  • Erik Forsgren She didn’t make a break in in order to steal and murder since she obviously had sex with the victim
    15 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood Erik


    The crime scene indicated Jodi killed Travis, but Flores was not able to figure out what happened.

    If he had checked the camera case, he would have discovered the strap was unused, meaning that Jodi did not attack Travis, considering the Camera moved from near the shower to near the bedroom.

  • Erik Forsgren Something tells me that JA having a borderline personality all of a sudden got angry for something like jealousy or something and killed the man in a frenzy or maybe she was indeed attacked by TA cause they had a rather complicated relationship based on love and hatred at the same time.
  • George Barwood Jodi dropped Travis’s camera, triggering an outburst of pent-up fear and anger, which then escalated to a gun accident and finally a knife fight.
  • Erik Forsgren Well in that case it is definitely not murder of the first degree anyhow.
  • George Barwood I never said any juror voted for ONLY felony!

    What would you have voted for?

  • George Barwood Lisa Schulein

    I said “many Jury members voted for BOTH”

    Which is accurate ( many = 7 out of 12 )

  • Hooch E. Hooch this is an interview with 3 of the jurors. i found it on another page just posted………/jodi-arias-jurors…/story…
  • Lisa Schulein George…yes BOTH there are 3 options on the verdict form. Guess when you say both it comes across as premed only and felony only….not both as felony/premed and 0 just felony.
  • Lisa Schulein George I watched the whole trial online and I want to know your opinion on info that was proven fact imo….what do you think about Jodi stalking Bobby too by calling him over and over….moving near him. Then with Matt she snuck into his house and slept on his bed and confronted Bianka….this is all Jodis word. Also what do you think about her recycling stories….for example….Bobby strangled her till she passed out….same with Travis….people walked into a restraunt telling her Matt was cheating on her with Bianca in which she went to her house to talk…..samething with Travis someone walked into a restraunt and told her he was cheating….she checked Bobbys email by hitting the back button and found emails from other girls and believed him to be cheating….again same with Travis…she hit the back space button on his MySpace and found messages of him being flirtatious with other girls eventhough they were dating yet….she moved to Organ to be near Bobby after they broke up and eventually got back together…..again she moved to Mesa after they broke up and they got back together. Again these are Jodi’s words and Alice LV. Just curious of your take on this….esp the recyled stories….oh also when Jodi called Det Flores she says that they exchanged passwords. First she says he gave her his FB and myspace…then when Det Flores told her they will be obtaining IP addresses of who was in his Gmail account….she contridicted herself a minute later saying he gave her his Myspace and Gmail. She wasn’t in the fog then….again this is Jodi’s words and Alice LV backing it up…thanks
  • George Barwood Lisa I don’t think any of that stuff is evidence of murder, although sharing passwords can be a sign of an abusive relationship.
  • Hooch E. Hooch it shows her character.
    12 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood It shows Travis was a scumbag..
    12 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Hooch E. Hooch was Bobby and Matt also scumbags?
    12 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood Bobby and Matt both cheated on Jodi and got found out. But that was all. They were not abusive like Travis was.
    12 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • Hooch E. Hooch it sounds like Jodi had repetitive bad behavior. Jodi claimed that one of them tried to choke her.
    12 hours ago · Like · 2
  • George Barwood Hooch E. Hooch I think Bobby did choke Jodi once, you are right. Jodi called the cops, but they didn’t do anything, is that right?
  • George Barwood So, yes, Bobby was abusive.
  • George Barwood…/jodi-arias-vampire…

    Thirteen is often referred to as an unlucky number. Nevertheless it did not stop Jodi Arias from testifying on day 13 of her trial.
  • Hooch E. Hooch and then she moved closer to him and got back together with him. that doesnt sound like she was afraid of him. she still wanted to be with him.
    12 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Lisa Schulein I what I posted above is circumstantial evidence since most murders there isn’t pictures or video taped….ok then then can you please answer this…Again Jodi’s word and AlV to back it up since you take what she says as truth….DV victims try to get away from their abusers and once they do they dont go back eventhough some part of them loves them still….Why did she drive 1000 miles eachway if she was afraid of him? Out of 80,000 texts, emails and im’s he called her those names eventhough I dont like the names he called her….after he was clearly mad at her before….he even says how he is nothing but a dildo with a heartbeat….my point being when did arguements between couples become “abusive”… sure we all have been called names and we called our husbands/wifes gf/bfs names….out of those many emails etc there isn’t a single one besides that text on the 26…..if she was sooo afraid she would have stayed away. There was zero reason to go to his house. DV victims who have children have no choice if their abuser has joint custody or visitation unless they have someone else to bring the child. My last point…again Jodis word and the 2 defence experts to back this up. Why didn’t she have zero injuries? Obviously Travis fought for his life by grabbing the knife…he had two hands….why not punch her to get her away while fighting….also if he or anyone is shot in the head then he says FKUB….what is supposed to say. Thank you for that will you marry me now? Im trying to understand….since you take her word and when I ask you about her word the stories that dont make sense or go against your theories you claim isn’t evidence. It shows her character….she wasn’t afraid etc….
    11 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Lisa Schulein If this is a free for all why do you keep deleting comments? Just because you dont agree or it doesn’t fit in your theory? Thats not a free for all….
    11 hours ago · Like · 5
  • Lisa Schulein George come on now….the only reason you are know calling Travis a scumbag is because Shanna Hogan said that on the view….yeah were Matt and Bobby too? Didn’t see you answer Hooch’s question. Weird how everyone did wrong but Jodi…..and when I ask you things about what she testified to since I thought you knew it all… say its not important. It’s all important…..that way the jury will kmow what led up to it….
    11 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Lisa Schulein You say Bobby abd Matt both cheated on Jodi but only Travis was abusive…..well no. She recycled stories from both Matt and Bobby and put them in her relationship with Travis….you and Hooch know what I said so im not going to rewrite it….you dont find it weird that the things Bobby and Matt did turned into the same story? You say you take her and her experts testimony as fact….so im asking you about the changing of stories and the inconsistancies along with the recyled stories…..
    11 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Hooch E. Hooch It is very convenient for Jodi to have the same issues in all her boyfriends. It is too much of a coincidence to have the same situations in all her boyfriends. I agree it is very weird that they all turned into the same stories.
    11 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood Lisa Schulein Travis was chatting up three women on the same day, while professing to be a Mormon Virgin, he was a total scumbag.

    Now Jodi of course was very stupid and weak to put up with all this abuse, I think the cumulative effect of all the boyfriends she had ( except for Darryl ) was to lower her self esteem – things just got worse and worse.

    Her standards declined, but that’s not good in a relationship, Travis had no respect for her.

    Jodi was vulnerable after running away from home at a young age – just the same as many other women.

    None of this proves very much, and none of it is really disputed, it just helps to explain why Jodi put up with the abuse rather than leaving Travis well alone.

    Jodi wanted to help and please everyone, and that can be dangerous.

    Hooch E. Hooch It wasn’t with all her boyfriends, Darryl was very decent, and Jodi remained friends with Matt after he cheated on her.

  • George Barwood But Lisa Schulein – what has this really got to do with the case anyway, except to set the background? Nothing can be proved, although the failure of the cops to do anything when Jodi reported abuse perhaps taught her reporting things is not much use (which is true).
    11 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • Hooch E. Hooch Travis had all rights to talk to other women. Maybe it was business or someone from the church? That does not make him a scumbag.
  • George Barwood Yes, I read it earlier today.
  • George Barwood Court has been advised by the Exhibits Department that exhibit # 243 which is in a sealed clear plastic bag containing a handbag was not inventoried of the items contained inside, IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED unsealing exhibit #243 to take the inventory and update the exhibit worksheet. Exhibit #243 shall then be resealed.


  • George Barwood Anyone know what #243 is?
  • Kitz DC Oh! Well I should check your wiki every morning! Sorry about that
  • George Barwood Oh, I see, it’s a handbag… but no list of what was in it.
  • George Barwood No problem!
  • George Barwood Do you think that’s Jodi’s handbag?
  • George Barwood Juan said Jodi had a Gun AND a Huge Knife in her handbag…
  • George Barwood They talk to you about a timeline and they talk to you about a photograph where Mr. Alexander is looking into the camera at the starting point, however, when the state showed you this photograph, this the photograph as the state mentioned, that was the last photograph that shows him before the attack when he was with her. That was what the statement was by the state. The next, and that’s at five thirty thirty. The next photograph that the state contends is where the stabbing is going on is exhibit one sixty-one which is at five thirty-one fourteen. So, in those forty-four seconds between that photograph and this photograph, is there time to go into the bedroom to get a knife? Is there time to go into the bedroom to get a purse that might have a knife and a gun? And that’s what happened in this case. Oh, wait a minute, can you just wait a minute, I need to go get my purse; I need to go do that. And then this is when you have the attack.
  • George Barwood I wonder if the Gun AND the Knife would actually fit, if Jodi had a load of other stuff inside her handbag…
  • George Barwood Of course I don’t believe a word of Juan’s theory…
  • Kitz DC Is it Jodi’s handbag? I thought she took it with her? Or is this something they collected when they arrested her?
  • George Barwood I assume it is probably Jodi’s, I cannot think of any other handbag that could be involved in the case.
  • Lisa Schulein So 75 percent of the boyfriends we heard about treated her bad… still doesn’t explain her recycled stories….kind of convient. And who cares of he had sex as a Mormon. Every religion states no pre marital sex…he was a man after all and so what he didn’t tell his friends about his sex life….do you openely discuss yours? that is hypocritical on your side. You claim Jodi had low self esteem….sorry but people with low self esteem dont confront a girl she thinks Matt was cheating on her with eventhough they broke up….and they certainly dont drive 1000 miles by themself to go back to see the abusive person….it is all relevent because circumstantial evidence is evidence here….even some is better then witnesses. Why do you cherry pick her testimony since that is what you base your facts on….that and arguements. You admitted you didn’t watch the whole trial.
    10 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood Lisa This background is well summarised by Alyce LaViolette’s testimony.

    Despite Travis being a scumbag, he was a scumbag that Jodi fell in love with. It’s hard to break those ties, and Travis would “guilt” Jodi about things.

    Have you ever been in love with a boyfriend who treated you badly? But perhaps you hoped you could help to overcome his problems? Often addictions.

    You show a very weak understanding of domestic violence, maybe you need to research it a bit more, to understand how people do things that seem stupid.

    There are many different forms, don’t think they are all the same.

  • Lisa Schulein If she wanted to be treated like a scumbag she let him….have you heard the tape? Does that sound like some wilting flower to you or someone who enjoys it? Again just because he was chatting up women means nothing. They were broken up for 1 and she was also chatting up with other men. You nor I do not know if these women were friends or collegues… you have woman friends you talk to? You still never answered my question about the Mormon and double life thing. So since he didn’t advertize his sex life with his friends and everyone thats a double life? Do you? Raise you hand guy and girls in here if you do….I dont. Yes I have been in bad relationships and I left even though it was hard. I know all about DV……they are all not the same but what you fail to acknolege is once victims get out which usually takes a long time they dont go back even if they still love them….DV victims stay because of children of financial reasons mostly. She didn’t live with him, didn’t have children nor depended on him for financial reasons. Per Jodi…..she admitted that neither or them said I love you to eachother neither. Seriously I dont know why you think all of this is not relevent….it is. If it wasn’t she wouldn’t be asked about it….also again it’s circumstancial. There are a few who support her that are DV victims and there are others who became outraged of her claims. Why is that? All those DV victims are wrong? You dont move closer to your abuser And all the other things I mentioned but you deleted. But you cant blame him for doing the exact samething she was…..and if your going to take her word as truth and nothing but the truth…you need to take all of it. Not cherry pick what you want to believe or think is relevent and not others….so again tell us about your sex life…..are you leading a double life if you dont tell anyone and everyone about it?
    8 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Lisa Schulein Also George please tell me this….why didn’t he hit her at all during his fight to live? She came out unskathed. He didn’t even hit her anywhere. Also he will get mad and threaten her over a 1000 camera but be ok and nice about her ruining his 55,000 dollar car a couple months later? Does that make sense to you? But please tell me why he didn’t hit her during the fight. And FKUB doesn’t count cause im sure if you got shot by someone you wouldn’t be all sweet. If you expected him not to get mad….what do you expect after he was shot/stabbed?
  • Lisa Schulein Did he Randall? I dont know why he says to have a open mind and then when we are just asking questions he deletes people…..esp on a discuss anything thread.
  • Billy Malone This was a typical DV case and should have been handled as such. I’m a guy and have no idea what makes women tick concerning this desire to be controlled. I have seen in in New Orleans while I live in the Quarter though with some of the gays. No I’m not one but they would even wear a collar and sit on the floor next to their ‘MAN’. i just noticed, didn’t say a thing. I have seen get punched out pretty badly though and still go back for more when in a position like Jodi. (just no reason) Next thing you know they are getting married followed by a trip or two the the ER every few months.
  • George Barwood Lisa That doesn’t prove anything at all. Travis could have been trying to get Jodi in a wrestling grip, or trying to choke her.
  • George Barwood You see, you have swallowed a load of tosh…
  • George Barwood The evidence proves Jodi is innocent, if you look at it logically.
    8 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Joe Moller Lisa you obviously dont care to see why Jodie was trying to defend herself. You also think she is guilty of murder1. You should be booted out as well.
    8 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Billy Malone In the Zimmerman case Mark used that statement, prove innocence, but it’s really dangerous if you fall short as he so stated
    8 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Lisa Schulein Again thats what she testified to… she was there you weren’t. She remembers then and if that happened she would have said it. I am taking everything as a whole as your cherry picking and now speculating. That is why im asking questions because I watched this trial twice and picked up different things….but you cant speculate that he put her in a choke hold if she never said that…..again its all relevent because it leads up to everything. So guess your having a double life like the rest of us….that was my point.
  • Billy Malone JOE 90%+ Of the people in America agree with Lisa.
    8 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Randall Stevens 3. People who think Jodi did not get a fair trial 4. People who do not agree Jodi should be executed. – Do these not apply to the group anymore?
    8 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Lisa Schulein Oh for the love of God Joe….just because I asked why there isn’t a mark on her and why he would flip out about a camera but not a car… asking cause it doesn’t make sense to me. If it makes sense to you wonderful. Please share.
  • Billy Malone LISA, my take is she threw the camera on the floor but it was an expensive camera and Travis had already gotten all he wanted and more from Jodi soooo. I know all my arguments with my GF happen after and never before.
    8 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Joe Moller I know everyone thinks like Lisa. Thats why this group is here. So we dont have to partake with tool bags like her. I wont waste my breath with her. Shes like alllll the other pigs. Jealous
    8 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson Next thread Joe.
    8 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson Billy those 90% got their believe from social media, and didnt watch the trial.. just sayin
  • Lisa Schulein Sorry Becky I didn’t watch the trial on HLN I watched it live streamed and again on u tube…just saying
    7 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Lisa Schulein Jealous of what Joe..please name one thing. I thought this was a place for a open mind…..guess asking questions so I can understand is wrong esp when you go off of her testimony only….so what is wrong asking about things that she testified to that she said that you guys want to ignore and others you want to cherry pick….whatever
    7 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Lisa Schulein Billy….thats a good point and very true. Thanks for answering a question for me
    7 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Joe Moller Lisa Did you read the group requirements while streaming the trial or after you watched it on you tube? Read the group requirements. You obviously have no intention to try and believe in Jodie. There is so many explanations.
    Why didn’t she have a mark on her? Really?
    7 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Joe Moller Its for an open mind. Yours is closed
    7 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Joe Moller Ta was a pos pedophile. You defend those types much Lisa? You like shitty little beat on their women fondle little boy shitty excuse for a person or religion types? That what you are into Lisa?
    7 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson Lisa Schulein, Its not up to us to make you change ur mind about ur beliefs.
  • Billy Malone Jodi not having a mark on her kind of explains it was an accident. JM states Travis was sitting when he got the first barrage of stab wounds. He got up and went to the mirror and Jodi continued to stab him in the back. Travis was a kick boxer and could have really put the hurt on Jodi if he felt threatened,
  • Joe Moller I won’t even try with you lise. Your little mind is closed. Next
    7 hours ago · Like · 1
  • George Barwood Joe Moller I agree, Lisa didn’t have an open mind at all.
    7 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • James Chester Everyone cool down. Open debate is wonderful. It’s interesting to chat to people who you disagree with.
    7 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Joe Moller Lisa was a …. Thats why I didnt even bother. It gets old and quit frankly exhausting
    7 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson I kno Joe.. she gave me a headach! lol.. like writing a book… Dang
    7 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • George Barwood It’s ok for people to ask genuine questions, asJames is doing.
    But they need to listen to the answer.
    I think she was trying to convince us Jodi was guilty, or something stupid like that.
    7 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Becky Atkinson I kno George Barwood, and i didnt have time to go into all that mess..
  • Joe Moller I would have written more beforehand if I wasn’t on this phone and working. But she didn’t even justify turning off the welding machine to do so.
  • George Barwood I said at one point that many jurors voted for BOTH premed and felony… and she couldn’t even understand that. Weird.
    7 hours ago · Like · 2
  • Becky Atkinson So folks are just focused on one thing, and dont want to hear the rest!
    7 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Becky Atkinson Ive argued for a Year with those haters,lol.. seems like they would want to dicuss other things besides murdering Jodi.
  • George Barwood One thing that people who believe Jodi is guilty do is to ignore the real hard evidence and make some claim with no logical foundation. Also things totally remote from the alleged crime – Jodi’s relationship with Bobby many years before is just background.
    7 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • George Barwood Or they have some “hunch”. But when you ask for firm evidence, nothing comes.
    6 hours ago · Like · 1
  • Zee Davis

George Barwood made Becky Atkinson an admin.


Becky Atkinson


Like ·  · 8 hours ago



Jodi Arias Sentencing Verdict: Jury Finds No Unanimous Agreement; Mistrial Declared in Penalty Phase
The Jodi Arias jury was hung in the sentencing phase. They could not unanimously decide whether to give Jodi the death penalty or life in prison. 8 jurors vo…


Like ·  · Share · 8 hours ago



Jodi Arias Trial – Day 56 – Part 1 (Defense Closing)


Like ·  · Share · 9 hours ago



Jodi Arias Murder Trial Day 55 Complete HD (5.2.13) Prosecution Closing Arguments
Jodi Arias Murder Trial Day 55 Complete HD May 2, 2013 For the Murder of Travis Alexander State Prosecutor Juan Martinez Closing Arguments / Jury Instruction…


Like ·  · Share · 9 hours ago

Here is a question for everyone : unless Jodi can get a new trial, she will likely either be executed or spend the rest of her life in prison.

Regardless of whether you think she premeditated this murder, given things like Dr Horn’s typographical error, the circus atmosphere at the trial, the very circumstantial evidence, the late change of theory by the state ( when Jodi’s money for defense witnesses had all been spent ), her dysfunctional defense team, her lead counsel who disliked her 9 days out of 10, the witnesses who were too frightened by the mob to testify, the text messages and emails that didn’t come into evidence, the fact she has no technical expert witnesses other than Robert Geffner, etc.

Just supposing she did return the 3rd gas can to Walmart, and there was a mistake there.

Do you think she deserves (at least ) a new trial after sentencing when she appeals?

Like ·  · Share · Yesterday at 12:48pm · Edited
  • Natalee Lee likes this.
  • George Barwood Brad I’m not asking you to predict what the court might do, or what the jury thought, I’m asking for YOUR personal opinion. You be the (appeal) judge.

    ( I know it’s rather premature… )

  • George Barwood Brad It wasn’t JUST on that basis, it was also the claim of Dr Horn regarding the “typographical error” in the autopsy report.

    Do you really think that claim of a “typo” is enough to execute someone? When Jodi didn’t have an expert to dispute it? ( and it came up in trial after all Jodi’s witnesses had already testified ).

  • George Barwood And how can Jodi ever hope to prove that Travis was looking at a picture of a young boy when she surprised him? There was nobody else in the room.
  • George Barwood That’s actually reversing the burden of proof – you are asking Jodi to prove every element of the defense case, when in many situations that can be completely impossible.
  • George Barwood Also, you realise that if Jodi proves she did return the 3rd gas can, Juan’s whole gas can theory collapses? He talked about nothing else for most of his closing argument.
  • George Barwood Brad You seemed to have missed the second paragraph…

    Brad: the gas receipts are easily explained without a 3rd gas can.

    I did ask you yesterday if there was any other circumstantial evidence you thought significant.

    What you don’t get ( and it’s VERY common ) and I find extremely worrying, is the nature of PROOF in a Criminal case.

    The State puts up evidence which is meant to PROVE it’s case.

    Then the Defense brings evidence that REFUTES that case (sometimes by indicating an innocent explanation).

    Then the state can try to REFUTE the defense case ( which is where Dr Horn and Amanda Webb come in ).

    The defense NEVER has to PROVE anything, it just has to cast doubt on whether the State’s PROOF is correct.

    Therefore PROVING Jodi’s claim about Travis and the picture of the young boy SHOULD have NO EFFECT whatsoever on the case, because the State did not REFUTE that claim ( how could it – again, Travis is dead, so it’s just Jodi’s word ).

    Well, I have banged on about this for so long now, you will never get it, so I’m removing you from the group. Bye.

  • Becky Atkinson Most of the jurors were bias and acted off of social media comments, that’s why Jodi didn’t have a fair trial.. JM stood up and yelled and run around in circles with his words, all of that excited the jurors, some folks like seeing that and they have fun with it.. But when it come down to putting someone to death, i call that bullshit.. NO FAIR!!!
  • Becky Atkinson It didnt matter if the defense did refute .. The jurors had their mind made up before the trial!! NOT FAIR!!!
  • Becky Atkinson Its bullshit to try and make excuses for what TA did or didnt do… Jodi was still abused.. the first time TA put his hands on her in a mean way, thats abuse, she showed that with her finger and JM started talking his crap that it didnt look like that in a certain picture, Well defense showed the jurors different.. Did that help? NOOOOO..BIAS!!!!! NO FAIR TRIAL!!!!
  • Katy Martin she deserves a retrial because of dr horns testimony but i don’t believe she returned the gas can unless some more evidence comes to prove she did.
  • George Barwood Rob I did finally lose patience with Brad, he is no longer in the group.
  • George Barwood Katy Martin Did you read this:

    Step 5: Why Amanda Webb was mistaken about the 3rd gas can. Amanda Webb testifi…See More
  • George Barwood And this video:

    Jodi Arias DID return the kerosene can to Walmart on June 3rd of 2008.http://yo…See More
  • Rob Roman I am tired of Brad’s junk science and illogical statements. Brad never “crushed the candy crush” because we found well over 21 flaws in his blog. We found so many flaws the article would have been too long to include them all.
  • Katy Martin no i haven’t read it i will do now though
  • Rob Roman I don’t believe the defense ever said that the fibers in the bathroom might be from the rope. Did they? His article proves nothing and doesn’t merit a response. He continues to believe the dfense must prove their case beyond doubt, instead of merely presenting a reasonable possibility.
  • Katy Martin i was mistaken i have read it before. I am in the uk so i will admit i don’t know their returns policy and i’m only going by what I heard at trial. I have read numerous times they have a strict returns policy , is that correct ?
  • Rob Roman Did Travis confide in Jodi that he had sexual thoughts about young children? It’s a reasonable possibility, regardless what his forum group thinks. The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. Brad and his forum group can prove it didn’t happen. Good luck to them.
  • Becky Atkinson it wasnt about the rules.. it was about finding the reciept. it was not found.. and because it wasnt found doesnt mean Jodi lied.
  • George Barwood Katy Martin The problem is the Walmart lady was not a manager, and she didn’t work in the correct store… it’s a bit more complicated than that though!
  • Katy Martin I wonder how she got selected to be the one who gave evidence then, I would think the managers selected her to represent them.
  • Kitz DC If the burden of proof is on the accuser Rob Roman, then the accuser would be Jodi Arias? I’m trying to understand what you wrote?
  • Kitz DC opps George Barwood, I didn’t see that you asked me directly, sorry still catching up from working all day
  • George Barwood Kitz DC The accused person is Jodi Arias. She is accused of 1st degree murder…
  • Becky Atkinson Maybe the only one who would get up there with no proof.. who knows Katy Martin. Good question tho.
  • Kitz DC I know that George Barwood, I was asking Rob what he meant by the burden of proof in his message about Travis’ sexual interest in children.
  • Rob Roman Kitz, I am saying that Jodi Arias claimed only that Travis confided in her that he had sexual feelings for young children and that Jodi claimed she caught him in his bedroom with pictures. Jodi does not have to prove beyond doubt that this is true, as Brad Justda and his blog full of logical holes likes to claim.
  • Kitz DC Thanks for clarifying Rob Roman, now it makes sense!
  • Rob Roman Is it a reasonable possibility? Based on Travis’ really odd behavior (Eddie Snell, et. and his abusive childhood and his bizarre relationship with Jodi, I believe it’s possible. No more need be proven. Jodi told some lies, but she said a lot of things that were proven to be true, also.
  • Kitz DC If she had proof that she returned the gas can (and Walmart made a mistake), I don’t think that’s enough to initiate an appeal. I mean what would the appeal be, new evidence? Perhaps prosecutorial misconduct if she could prove Martinez had the info or something.
  • Rob Roman Appeals are won on the basis of the trial not being a fair trial, and sometimes on the basis of new evidence. I don’t see how anyone, regardless of their views, can argue that this was a fair trial. In the event of a new trial, the bad facts for the defense are not going to go away. They will need to be explained.
  • George Barwood Kitz DC The cans WERE Juan Martinez closing argument to all intents and purposes! It was what he absolutely relied on. The rest was fluff and junk.

    He kept coming back to it again and again, culminating with this:

    And, as you consider this case, and as you ponder your decision, one of the things that I want to consider that is symbolic of this whole case is that this issue involving the gas can. What she wants you do, because you know it’s a lie, what she wants you to do is disregard it, but symbolically speaking, when she asks you to disregard it, what she wants you to do, is she wants you to carry those gas cans, uh huh, she wants you to help her fill them with gas. That’s what she wants you to do, symbolically speaking. What the state is asking you to do is to not leave this courtroom filled with the stench of gasoline on your hands. That’s what we’re asking you to do. Because it’s not true; but she’s already talked to you about this, these gas cans, it’s not true that she returned them, but she’s asking you to help her. She’s asking you symbolically to help her by carrying them out and taking those cans with you.

  • Kitz DC I agree Rob Roman that appeals are won when the appellate court finds a trial has caused an unfair advantage to the prosecutor. The automatic appeals review will only look to the facts presented at trial; they are not going to speculate beyond the records of the trial AND how those records apply to the law. So they aren’t going to see anything about a potential receipt. So as I said, I’m assuming that this would be a separate appeal based on new evidence or based on proving prosecutorial misconduct.
  • Kitz DC I don’t think the gas cans are the only issue which the State used to demonstrate her credibility George Barwood. But it was certainly a strong one. And as you reminded me once, it was Jodi Arias herself that brought up the return of that gas can. This gas can is 100% proof she lied (or 100% she didn’t if she can prove she returned it) so it is a strong piece of evidence. But is it the ONLY evidence the jurors considered when rendering their verdict?
  • George Barwood Kitz DC We don’t know what the jurors thought, or indeed if they engaged their brains at all!

    But legally speaking, in the record, Juan absolutely relied on the gas cans in closing arguments.

  • George Barwood I personally think the jurors decided to ignore all the evidence, and just tried to decide if Jodi was lying. The “why should we believe you now” juror question.
  • George Barwood There did seem to be one juror asking good questions, but I think he/she must have been an alternate.
  • George Barwood Can we work out who asked the Dura Mater question, say?
  • Kitz DC In his closing arguments yes, he did focus on the gas cans quite a bit. But I think his main focus was on her credibility. And closing arguments aren’t facts of the case; they are just the state and prosecutor selling their theories.
  • Kitz DC I don’t think we know which jurors asked the questions, do we? Would be fascinating to see who was asking, who wasn’t. I thought they kept that under wrap? I’ll have to go check your wiki
  • Zee Davis

George Barwood made Estela Smith an admin.


Estela Smith


Like ·  · 11 hours ago

I have just been reading up on Lord Denning.

In retirement, always ready to furnish journalists with a quote, he ran into even more controversy for ill-judged remarks in interviews. In one he told how donning his black cap to pass a death sentence had never troubled him.

He added: “We shouldn’t have all these campaigns to get the Birmingham Six released if they’d been hanged. They’d have been forgotten and the whole community would have been satisfied.”

He was also quoted as saying the Guildford Four were “probably guilty” and referring to European Commissioner Sir Leon Brittan as a “German Jew”.

In 1980 he upheld an appeal by West Midlands police against a civil action by the Birmingham Six over injuries they received in police custody. To accept that the police were lying would open an “appalling vista,” he said. But 11 years later he admitted he was wrong, saying the West Midland detectives had “let us all down”.

Lord Denning, controversial ‘people’s judge’, dies aged 100
Lord Denning, the most celebrated English judge of the 20th century, died yesterday just six weeks after his 100th birthday, leaving an unprecedented mark on the development of English law.


Like ·  · Share · 14 hours ago · Edited

THE WORLD! THE WORLD! Can you believe this? George you can delete this if you don’t like it up! Mormon Belief!!!! Saving our dead ancestors shows we are the only Christian church

We believe we have temples where we get the handshakes and passwords that allow us to become gods. We also baptize by proxy dead people so they too can become Mormon

THE WORLD! THE WORLD! Can you believe this? George you can delete this if you don't like it up!
Like ·  · Share · Yesterday at 12:14pm · Edited


Brad Justda Just Da Truth Blog. We found over 20 flaws in your blog entitled “Crushing the Candy Crush”. We responded with the article below. Your other Blog articles we found too laughable to bother with. You never gave us the courtesy of a response.
Milk and Cookies for the “Crusher” of Candy Crush ! (Dec 28)
Milk and Cookies for the “Crusher” of Candy Crush ! Opinion by Amanda Chen and Rob Roman Lise LaSalle, a Canadian blogger, fired the first shot across the bow in the battle of the upcoming 2nd pena…


George Barwood updated the description.
This group is for
1. People who believe Jodi Arias is innocent
2. Open minded people who would like more information
3. People who think Jodi did not get a fair trial
4. People who do not agree Jodi should be executed…See More


Eight Step Guide to why Jodi is innocent:

FAQ post is please read before posting or commenting….See More


Jodi Arias – Surrebuttal Day, 2nd May 2013, Dura Mater Typo
See for transcripts of whole testimony


Like ·  · Share · January 9 at 1:25pm · Edited


Step-by-step guide to why Jodi is innocent.

( Note : if you are unfamiliar with the case, there is an introduction here: )

Step 1: The pool of blood near toilet entrance

This shows that Jodi’s story is likely True, and Juan’s story is False.

See the picture below. It shows a significant pool of blood near the entrance to the toilet. If you think about it, this pool of blood could really only come from Travis’ gunshot wound, it’s close to the wall, and only the gunshot wound (which caused heavy bleeding through the nose) could produce a concentrated pool like this in a reasonable amount of time. Jodi testified that Travis would be lying around here just after he was shot, so it confirms her story.

Note: A higher resolution version of this image is at

Next: Step 2: Juan’s story is not consistent with the evidence

Step-by-Step Guide Index

Note: be sure to stay STRICTLY on-topic when commenting on the Step-by-Step posts. Off-topic comments will be removed.

New Step-by-Step Guide to Why Jodi's story is True and Juan's story is False. Step 1: See this picture. It shows a significant pool of blood near the entrance to the toilet. If you think about it, this pool of blood could really only come from Travis' gunshot wound, it's close to the wall, and only the gunshot wound could produce a concentrated pool like this in a reasonable amount of time.
Like ·  · Share · January 27 at 6:30pm · Edited
  • 12 people like this.
  • Jay Singer Kitz DC almost immediately with the gun charged they both fall down on the floor near the toilet and right there travis said FKYB,

    Brad Justda i dont think she must have seen blood, she was in shock and focused on the fight not on the blood, she even did not know that he was shot with the gun it was matter of second they were struggling on the floor jodi’s focus was the GET AWAY not to analyze the blood, she just said on the stand that she does ‘not remember’ being any blood there, she did not say ‘she remember” the blood not being there 2 very different sentences

  • Pascal Van Daele Right Jay and from the moment she was fighting for her life with her the brain blocked and went in auto-pilot. Wich exlplains that she didnt remember anything anymore from then on===
  • George Barwood Kitz DC asked “How long was it George Barwood between the gun shot and him yelling FKYB?”

    We don’t know exactly. The total time from the bathroom ceiling shot to the accidental picture in the Hallway is 62 seconds.

    That needs to include Jodi dropping the Camera, a “body slam”, Jodi running down the Hallway (followed by Travis), through the Closet, Travis is shot, Travis bleeding near toilet entrance, Travis at sink, Travis says FKYB, Travis coming down Hallway, camera goes off at 62 seconds.

    Jodi’s perception of the time involved may be very warped by the stress. Ultimately does it matter? The evidence is what it is, it confirms Jodi’s story, it shows Juan’s story is wrong. There are limits to what can be reliably re-constructed.

  • George Barwood “doesn’t make sense that Jodi would claim she saw no blood”

    Again, she does NOT claim that, she says she doesn’t remember.

    After the gunshot she pretty much only remembers that Travis said “FKYB”, that’s about it.

    I think she also has some kind of memory about Travis crawling around, but she didn’t testify to that at the main trial, that was in a pre-trial hearing, after which Juan changed the prosecution theory.

  • George Barwood After the jury was dismissed for the day, Nurmi requested a mistrial, saying that Flores had committed perjury in his testimony.
    In open court, Judge Sherry Stephens read aloud the ruling made at the 2009 hearing by Judge Sally Duncan, who was handling the case at the time:

    “The State presented evidence that the victim was first shot on the right side of his head near his eye with a .25-caliber handgun and that the bullet lodged in his left cheek. This wound was not fatal and may or may not have rendered the victim unconscious. The victim did not remain unconscious, based on the infliction of the other wounds and the location of blood-spatter evidence in the bathroom sink and blood in the hallway. In addition, the defendant told police that the victim was unconscious after being shot but then crawled around and was stabbed.”


  • Jay Singer jodi did not testify in prior gearing the crawling was something she said to police when she was still lying, I remamber a jurors question if she remamber the crawling and she said NO
  • George Barwood Jay Singer Thanks for pointing that out. So Jodi never testified to Travis crawling.
  • Kitz DC Well technically, I think it was admitted as evidence because they admitted portions of the police interviews. But I don’t remember if this was one of the pieces or not.
  • Kitz DC But you are right, Jodi never testified to it on the stand
  • George Barwood An additional thought: what is the approximate area of the pool? This shouldn’t be too hard to estimate if we know the size of a tile. My initial guess is the pool is about 3 inches across? A higher resolution copy of the image is here:…/BathmatAndBloodPool.jpg

    If we know the area, it should also be possible to roughly estimate the volume of blood here.

  • James Chester I’m not someone who assumes that any murder case in which there was no witness to it goes exactly as the prosecution alleges.

    In this case they had a crime scene which had been partially cleaned, so even the most optimistic investigator will know that what they feel happened will be automatically questionable.

    I think it’s easy to look at specific examples and then conclude the prosecution were mistaken, but ultimately in this case every defence or explanation that Jodi used to push against very strong evidence was always convenient or seemed to defy logic.

    For example the gun. You have here two versions. One is that she brought it with her based on it being the same caliber as the gun that was nicked from her garden shed in a very weird robbery. The other is that Travis had a gun and only she and him knew about it, despite the fact the investigators can find no indication that he owned one.

    As a jury member you cannot build bridges in behalf of an defendant or a prosecutor. But this was the theme in this case. A imperfect but decent version of events from Martinez, and an version of events from Jodi in which the jury would have to have had several leaps of faith and just take her word for many things.

    That said I don’t think she is evil or whatever it is the sensationalist media wants to portray. My opinion based on what I reviewed is that Travis did in fact mess her around and see other women while keeping her keen, and she lost her mind in the worst possible way.

  • George Barwood Welcome James Chester. This post is looking at blood evidence that was well preserved, it’s one of a series of posts looking at the forensic evidence in detail. The origin of the gun is off-topic in this thread, but you are welcome to make a new a post to discuss that.
  • Kitz DC I think I read somewhere that those tiles are 12″x12″George Barwood. That’s pretty standard for tiles.
  • George Barwood Thanks Kitz DC. So the pool is indeed roughly a triangle with sides of about 3 inches, and area 4 x sqrt(3) = 7 square inches. I would guess maybe 100ml of blood, you could do experiments.
  • Kitz DC Well remember George Barwood, I just THINK I read that. I don’t think that proves they are 12″. They could be 18″ too which are also pretty standard for tiles. I imagine an engineer could figure it out based on related items in these pictures?
  • Kitz DC lol Brad Justda! You are one smart engineer! I knew somebody had better facts than what i “thought” i remembered reading. Way to go Brad! lol
  • George Barwood Brad is good at this stuff. Ok, so the pool is a bigger than I said, more like 30 square inches or so I think, maybe 200ml of blood. Could certainly do some experiments to see how blood spreads out. Water is probably not a bad approximation, although I imagine fresh blood is a bit more viscous.
  • George Barwood There is a long article here:…

    Hemorheology, also spelledhaemorheology (from the Greek‘αἷμα haima “blood” and r…See More
  • George Barwood “When the hematocrit rises to 60 or 70%, which it often does in polycythemia, the blood viscosity can become as great as 10 times that of water..”

    Hmm.. was Travis dehydrated? Probably not.

  • George Barwood The viscosity of blood at 37 °C is normally 3×10−3 to 4×10−3 (Pa·s)
  • George Barwood So roughly 4 times the viscosity of water.
  • George Barwood…

    Surface tension is a contractive tendency of the surface of a liquid that allows…See More
  • George Barwood “The surface tension of blood assessed in a group of 71 healthy subjects (24 men and 47 women) by the drop method at a temperature of 22 degrees C was 55.89 x 10(-3) N x m(-1), S.D.=3.57 x 10(-3) N x m(-1). It did not correlate with age or sex of the examined subjects nor with any of the following variables: red cell sedimentation rate, blood haemoglobin levels, number of erythrocytes, total serum cholesterol, total serum triacylglycerols, creatinine blood levels, ALT and AST activity. The surface tension of blood and other body fluids can play an important part not only in the genesis and development of decompression sickness but also in other processes in the organism.”

    PubMed comprises more than 23 million citations for biomedical literature from M…See More
  • George Barwood So given all this ( sorry, it’s surface tension that matters not viscosity ), we should be able to plug figures in and estimate the thickness of the blood puddle.
  • George Barwood Well I had a bit of trouble calculating, so let’s just say 2mm as a guess, using 15cm as side of triangle, then we get 0.2cm x sqrt(3) x 15 * 15 = 77 cc.
  • George Barwood Wikipedia gives two examples:

    For mercury on glass, γHg = 487 dyn/cm, ρHg = 13.5 g/cm3 and θ = 140°, which gives hHg = 0.36 cm.

    For water on paraffin at 25 °C, γ = 72 dyn/cm, ρ = 1.0 g/cm3, and θ = 107° which gives hH2O = 0.44 cm.

    So these puddles are around 3.5mm to 4.5mm.

    I’m not sure, but perhaps my 2mm estimate for blood on a ceramic tile is probably on the low side. I think some practical experiments with water are perhaps called for!

  • Becky Atkinson Jay Singer. your comment above saying you remember a jurors question to Jodi about her remembering TA crawling? Was the crawling mentioned in the trial? just wandering.
  • Kitz DC Good question Becky Atkinson, I don’t remember either. I do remember her describing him crawling in the police interview.
  • Becky Atkinson Wished i could find th video to those juror question, or that one especially.. i didnt think the jurors knew anything about that story..
  • Becky Atkinson That blood above, seems to me TA had to of stood there for a little make a puddle.
  • Becky Atkinson So seeing that makes me think it was the first bleeding point.. before going to the sink.. The mat looks moved a little, maybe from the dropping of the camera like Jodi mentioned.. Or could it be that the mat was moved after the shot.. hummm
  • George Barwood Becky I think Travis was not standing there, he would have been lying there in shock after being shot.
  • Pascal Van Daele very likely George, more then being standing
  • Natalee Lee I agree george
  • Becky Atkinson Yes George, that may be true, because standing would be splatters, right? and laying would mean puddle?
  • Natalee Lee Not necessarily
  • Becky Atkinson So after being shot, you say he went down on top of Jodi, thats when he came at her like a linebacker.. So hes on top of Jodi, and his head is bleeding from the shot on the right side of his head. right? Jodi then rolls out from under him,
  • Becky Atkinson But also looks like splatter to me,..
  • George Barwood Becky I wouldn’t want to be too definite on exactly what position they were in, I am just saying Travis’ head was near this location, and the very heavy stream of blood from his nose created the puddle of blood.
  • George Barwood Blood would also have flowed into his mouth, causing all kinds of splatter as he coughed etc. That is especially evident in the sink where he went next.
  • Kitz DC I looks like whatever left that puddle also left the drops at the same time?
  • George Barwood Kitz DC Yes, certainly. There are two drops of medium-velocity spatter on the toilet, and all sorts of other spatter from expiration, cast-off.
  • George Barwood I would say at one point Travis coughed violently in the direction of the toilet.
  • George Barwood Or just possibly sneezed or a combination of coughing and sneezing.
  • Kitz DC Well you do believe – or rather I should say this thread discusses – that he was laying down to create that kind of pool right? Those look like big drops, perhaps when he was trying to stand up (or go down).
  • George Barwood Kitz There are limits to what you can say for certain. But certainly, Travis would have been on the floor somehow, then got up to go over to the sink, leaving a trial of blood as he went.
  • Becky Atkinson so maybe on his knees?
  • George Barwood There was spatter on the blinds you can see as well – that’s in Flore’s report.
  • George Barwood You cannot say what position from the blood evidence. Travis could have been in dozens of different positions, all would be consistent with the blood evidence here. Some may be more plausible than others, but it would be speculation, and doesn’t seem to matter much to me.
  • George Barwood Given he turned his head to look left just before Jodi shot him, it might be natural from that to suppose he was lying face-down, but with his head turned left towards the toilet.
  • Lorweth Gwaednerth Interesting that there are no dents in the wall, where Travis was allegedly to have tackled Jodi.
  • Becky Atkinson well of course not.. they never hit the wall.. Jodi said they hit the floor.
  • Zee Davis

George Barwood updated the description.
This group is for
1. People who believe Jodi Arias is innocent
2. Open minded people who would like more information
3. People who think Jodi did not get a fair trial
4. People who do not agree Jodi should be executed…See More

From last June…

“The new penalty phase is scheduled to begin July 18”.

Well, that didn’t quite work out.

Arias Trial FAQ: How will they find an unbiased jury?
HLN viewers have had a lot questions about the Jodi Arias case since a mistrial was declared on May 23. has been answering some of the most-asked questions in a series of seven articles called Arias Trial FAQs, or frequently asked questions.


George Barwood shared his post.

Step 8. Wrapping everything up

There is a great deal more that can be said about Jodi’s case, but what I want to stress here is that you must approach the evidence with an open mind, and the presumption of innocence.

Which case makes sense as a whole? Was the mission really secret? Why would Jodi lie about how many gas cans she used? You need to consider everything, which story ultimately makes sense….See More

George Barwood shared his post.
Step-by-Step Guide Index
1. The pool of blood near toilet entrance Juan’s story is not consistent with the evidence

3: Juan’s purported proof of guilt

4. Why Dr Horn was wrong about the gunshot

5. Why Amanda Webb was mistaken about the 3rd gas can

6. Weak arguments

7. The Camera and other scene evidence

8. Wrapping everything up

Note: be sure to stay STRICTLY on-topic when commenting on the Step-by-Step posts. Off-topic comments will be removed.

Like ·  · Share · Yesterday at 9:52am · Edited

George Barwood updated the description.
This group is for
1. People who believe Jodi Arias is innocent
2. Open minded people who would like more information
3. People who think Jodi did not get a fair trial
4. People who do not agree Jodi should be executed…See More

Step 7. The Camera and other scene evidence

Given the evidence in Steps 1 to 4, many people have accepted that the gunshot has to have been first, but suggest that Jodi shot Travis in the shower, and then stabbed him later.

This was after all the prosecution theory, until some time in early 2012, when the prosecution case changed to gunshot last….See More

Like ·  · Share · February 5 at 6:34am · Edited
  • Seen by 61
  • Lisa Schulein Sorry I have to disagree about the picture….if you look closely it was accidently taken in the bathroom not the hallway. You can see the top of the shower door.
  • Lisa Schulein Also Jodi if Jodi dragged Travis down the hallway, the blood in the middle would be disturbed by his body. That is why the blood on the side of the walls are drops and the middle is smeared…
  • George Barwood Lisa Schulein There was a picture taken in the bathroom showing the top of the shower door, but I am referring to this picture taken 62 seconds later, which shows Travis lying, on his back, with blood visible, in the Hallway near the bedroom. Obviously the Camera moved there, meaning someone picked it up and carried it there.

    Travis appears to be holding his head up. In fact I believe at this stage Travis has only been shot accidentally (the blood you see coming from his nose and running down over his shoulder), the fight that led to Jodi killing him probably has not even started at this point.

    George Barwood's photo.
  • George Barwood “if Jodi dragged Travis down the hallway, the blood in the middle would be disturbed by his body”

    That’s a good extra point : there are no smears, which tends to suggest Travis died outside the linen cupboard, and not on the bedroom carpet. There is a picture which suggests Travis was rotated just outside the linen cupboard, and dragged to the shower from that location:…/HallFromBathroom.jpg

  • Billy Malone Too bad we don’t have an image of Travis standing at the sink looking in the mirror at Jodi stabbing him again and again in the back. (JM closing arguments)
  • George Barwood In this image I have added white arrows to show what I mean

    George Barwood's photo.
  • Lisa Schulein Sorry I thought you meant the pic of the light….I cant tell if Travis is lifting his head or is on the foot so it looks like it. I obviously never been shot in the head…..but I doubt it just stunned him. If you go by Jodi’s testimony she was knocked unconscience when she hit the furniture or wall and was knocked out….I would think a gun shot would also knock someone out….if that makes sence.
  • George Barwood Lisa The gunshot essentially meant that Travis was shot in the nose.. ( under the skin ). Obviously this would be a shock, and would cause heavy bleeding down through the nose, but there is no reason why he would be knocked out.

    This is covered in detail in Step 4. Why Dr Horn was wrong about the gunshot

    Step-by-Step Guide Index 1. The pool of blood near toilet entrance https://www….See More
  • Lisa Schulein Hi…im confused. There is a hole above his eyebrow….so even if it went through pass his sinus cavity it still entered his head somehow like Gabby Gifford. Im sorry but this doesn’t make sense since ppl get knocked out and hurt bad if they hit their head in a car accident like my cousin who was in a coma and on life support….or even if someone gets hit by a baseball in the nose etc….can you please explain how a bullet entering someones body will only stun them to the point where they are able to amulate. Thanks
  • Billy Malone With the arrow head lodged near his carotid artery, Cartwright began walking with one of his hunting partners until they obtained cell reception This guy was shot in the cheek and continued walking.
  • Lisa Schulein That is a arrow…a straight projectile….totally different then a bullet…..and it went in his neck and cheek…not through skull.
  • Lisa Schulein totally different….
  • George Barwood Lisa A .25 is not a very powerful bullet, these are tiny little “pocket” guns, almost a toy gun.

    Generally a single shot from distance with a .25 will not stop someone. In this case the wound was relatively superficial, the angle was shallow and the bullet did not penetrate the second layer of bone.

    It’s not a trial issue, the much of the testimony on the last day was about the bullet track, and Dr Horn’s theory was exposed as wrong.

    Dr Horn was not really qualified to give an opinion, because as he admitted he did not read the relevant research, he is purely a Medical Examiner.

  • George Barwood Wilmott: Okay, so you’re not familiar with research that talks about specifically people getting hit with projectiles in their frontal lobe and not being incapacitated. Are you aware of that?
    Horn: No.
    Wilmott: So you don’t do that extra research as a part of your job?
    Horn: No.
  • George Barwood What Dr Horn failed to realise is that a bullet deflecting off bone can produce a fracture.
  • Billy Malone Lisa, the arrow didn’t go into his neck I stopped near his ear on the opposite side it entered from. Point was it didn’t knock him out.
  • George Barwood You can read a lot of testimony about the gunshot here:
  • Kitz DC George Barwood I don’t understand this part: “grossly unfair for people to accuse Jodi of murder based on a theory that she and her defense attorneys have not had a chance to answer in court.” Can you expand on that? I’m curious what the defense team wasn’t able to address?
  • Lisa Schulein It’s still a bullet going into someones head….this is where im lost. I stunned myself by hitting my head on a table when I tried picking something up….well then if it didn’t knock him out and only went through his nose…..wouldn’t it destroy or at least damage his optical nerves? Alot of people have been killed with a .25 and a bullet is different then a arrow.
  • George Barwood Kitz The defense refuted the case that Juan Martinez made, which was based on Travis being immediately incapacitated by the gunshot.

    If Juan had stuck to Flores’ original theory, we would have seen a very different trial.

  • Kitz DC Wasn’t Flores’ original theory that the gunshot was first? Is that what you mean, that if the prosecutor stuck with that, we’d see a different trial?
  • Billy Malone George other website bloggers gave JM straight A’s for most of his closing arguments. Especially where Travis saw Jodi in the mirror standing at the sink, bleeding while she continued to stab him in the back. Now I have had more than one woman come at me with a knife and I sure as hell never turned my back on them. (Never hit a woman either)
  • George Barwood Kitz DC “Wasn’t Flores’ original theory that the gunshot was first? Is that what you mean, that if the prosecutor stuck with that, we’d see a different trial?”

    Yes, precisely. Actually if you didn’t know this, you really need to read up on the the trial a lot more before commenting further! It was the biggest disputed issue in the trial!!

  • Lisa Schulein Sorry Bill but yes you do….
  • Billy Malone Gee George I though the whole thing hinged on the gas can the way JM made it sound,
  • Kitz DC Yep I’m aware of the original theories George Barwood, I was just trying to understand or confirm that’s what you’ meant when you wrote “have not had a chance to answer”. I still don’t understand how you think this gave the defense some disadvantage since they knew about it since 2012?
  • George Barwood Kitz DC What I mean is that talking about possible ways the prosecution could fix their broken case is a bit unfair to Jodi, because it’s so hypothetical.

    At any rate, the fact that the prosecution case IS broken should give you considerable pause for thought.

  • Billy Malone Lisa I have been shot twice and only knew it when I saw the blood. Bullet went right threw my wrist, the other was shrapnel (army). This whole Travis thing only went 2 min.
  • George Barwood JM did also argue the scene.

    Here is a very strange passage from his final rebuttal ( the part where Jodi’s do cannot reply to )

    Blood in sink and shallow back wounds
    There were many, many possible scenarios that they talked to you about, and one of them involved the sink, when there was this blood all over it and there was smudges all over it, and one of the things that they told you, well if it was her that was doing it, and if she was able to puncture her stomach … his stomach, how is it then that, as he’s standing over this sink, how is it then that , if that is what’s happening, how come they didn’t go in deeply? Well, one of them, the reason, is that remember there was blood all over the place, and there was blood all over the knife, and she’s already admitted that she cut herself during the attack with the knife. One of the reasons that it could be that it wasn’t deep is that, that’s when she cut herself and that’s when she’s going after him with her left hand and blood has this consistency to it, she slipped on the handle, went to the blade, and then she cut herself. And if she cut herself, and still wants to continue attacking him, it would mean that every time that she would stab him, it probably hurt her. Everything that was presented to you is nothing more than argument, with nothing to back it up. Nothing, that is, unless you believe what the defendant is telling you. If you believe what the defendant is telling you, then all of these arguments then do begin to make sense.

  • George Barwood I think he was referring to the shallow back wounds, even though he says stomach… but it’s all over the place!
  • Billy Malone Kitz, just a few nicks but I’m not a kickboxer like Travis was.
  • Billy Malone Yes he was George but the crowd loved it.
  • George Barwood It would be fun to collect up all the blunders in Martinez’s closing.

    One of my favorites is where he says “belt” then corrects himself to “rope”. Where did THAT come from?!!

  • George Barwood “What’s interesting about that though if she was doing that, where are the footsteps with the blood on it if she was so hysterical? Where are the footsteps with the blood on it? If she was walking around that bedroom, looking around for this belt, I’m sorry, for this rope, certainly the indication always was that it was after the killing that she took it with her.”
  • George Barwood Thinking about bondage was causing Juan to go nuts!
  • Kitz DC Thanks for clarifying George Barwood.
  • Billy Malone One would think that Jodi’s fingers would have been on the floor. That’s why it was so important for Flores to see Jodi in person ASAP. Well maybe they got the hospital reports where Jodi had her fingers sowed back on.
  • Lisa Schulein Sorry to hear that Billy….but you did feel pain after a minute or so….noone can be shot, stabbed, blown up lose their legs etc without pain. I broke both my feet and arm. I didn’t feel anything either for a minute or so….then I sure did.
  • Kitz DC That’s actually a good point George Barwood, how come there weren’t bloody foot prints all over the bedroom? What’s your theory of that?
  • Billy Malone As I posted before.uys get a leg or arm blown off and the only way they know it is when the try to stand or reach for something. You think it is still there. Travis felt no pain. Oh when you realize what happened it hurts like hell. A small injury hurts right away too. Paper cut,ouch big time
  • Kitz DC I agree with you Lisa Schulein, pain always comes. And even though the experts say people don’t feel pain in the middle of some major trauma, that doesn’t mean EVERYONE has the same reaction. Everybody is different.
  • George Barwood ” how come there weren’t bloody foot prints all over the bedroom?”

    I think Jodi testified that when her memory recovered, she found she had no shoes on.

    So I guess she removed her shoes at some point (assuming she originally had them on). I’m not sure what happened to her shoes. Or she removed her socks and washed her feet, well a million possibilities. How does it prove anything?

  • Kitz DC It doesn’t prove anything George Barwood, I was just curious on what you thought of this. I would think that there’d be blood all over that carpet if she wasn’t thinking straight.
  • George Barwood I think there are one of two small stains on the bedroom carpet (besides the big pool), but they were not discussed at the trial, so probably fairly meaningless.
  • George Barwood Maybe Jodi wiped her feet a bit in the area with all the smudging. It’s a fact that she didn’t leave a trail of bloody footprints down the stairs (say). So… what?
  • George Barwood How does this prove anything about whether the rope existed (which I think is what Juan was arguing)?
  • Kitz DC I think he was arguing about her mental state after she killed him George Barwood. She testified that she had no memory, was in a fog. Her experts confirmed that she was in a high state of anxiety (acute stress or something).
  • Kitz DC I believe the point he is making that there would be foot prints all over the place if she was getting the rope. Don’t you think that is a valid point? She was obviously covered in blood (from that 62 sec picture). Right?
  • George Barwood If her feet were covered in blood, there would be foot prints all over the place. This was not the case, so that tells us her feet were not covered in blood (say as she went down the stairs ).

    So that’s a known fact.

    So she could also have picked up the rope without making footprints.


  • Billy Malone The rope, JM stated Jodi brought the knife along with the gun from Yureka
  • Kitz DC There was a bloody battle George Barwood, right? We see all the blood in the 62 picture, and she dragged him down the hallway and put him in the shower. It is highly likely that she was covered in blood from head to foot.
  • George Barwood That is Juan’s story (which is wrong, but that isn’t relevant here).

    But nevertheless, there are no bloody footsteps on the stairs.

    So, we can deduce that Jodi somehow removed any blood from her shoes or feet, or removed what she had on, or washed her feet, or wiped them, or put something else on… whatever.

  • George Barwood Do you not see it is an undisputed FACT that she did not have bloody feet as she went out of the bedroom doors and down the stairs?

    I would think you are trolling here, but on the other hand Juan seems to have an equally feeble grasp of logic, so I should not be too harsh!!

  • Kitz DC It is an undisputed FACT that she did not have bloody feet when she went downstairs and into the bedroom. But I thought we were discussing the prosecutors closing statement. I don’t know what a troll is George Barwood. But if it’s someone who wants to get to understand this case and help, then troll it is.
  • George Barwood Kitz DC The problem is that I see logical arguments like this very clearly, and I have difficulty understanding why other people cannot see it as well..

    But failure to think remotely logically is so common, that I do recognise that often it is not intentional…

  • George Barwood Juan Martinez was making a ridiculous logical error in wondering why Jodi didn’t make bloody footsteps picking up the rope.

    Because we know she didn’t make bloody footsteps going out of the bedroom door ( and Jodi didn’t levitate ).

    Is that clear enough?

  • Lorweth Gwaednerth A .25 caliber gun would not have penetrated Travis Alexander’s frontal cranium. To have done so, it would have to have been a non-moving target. Immobile, with the gun muzzle placed flush against the forehead. Then a muzzle burn from the heated gun powder would have also been seen.
    I disagree with the gun shot all together.
    I’m a man who has a lot of experience with all calibers of guns & shooting of them.
  • Karlie M. Thompson A .25 cal is more than capable of killing someone with one shot to any vulnerable area of the body. 22’s actually kill more people and are used more frequently because there are so many of them out in the publics hands. There is very little research available on “deaths by caliber in the U.S.” but here is some information that helps to clarify how dangerous even a small gun is in the wrong hands.

    Karlie M. Thompson's photo.
  • George Barwood “So let’s assume she’s telling the truth ,if she has blood on top of her feet, then she has blood on the bottom, where she was exposed to all the blood on the floor, therefore, she should have left bloody footprints throughout the bedroom, but there doesn’t appear to be any blood residue by the only exit door in the bedroom.”

    One possibility would be that she put her shoes on just after the fight, then later discarded them (before she recovered her memory). Perhaps they were on the floor in the bedroom, reachable from the area where there are bloody stains.

  • Lisa Schulein Well now that doesn’t make sense because Jodi said when she came out of the fog she had blood on her hands and feet and was barefoot. So she would know since the fog was gone by then.
  • George Barwood Lisa Did you read what I just wrote?

    The simple explanation is that Jodi put her shoes on just after the fight (say they were near the main bedroom door), and then discarded them before her memory recovered.

  • George Barwood I am saying her shoes would have been within reach of where you can see signs of Jodi perhaps treading blood onto the carpet (the smudging).

    George Barwood's photo.
  • Lisa Schulein Yes I did read it but what Jodi says is true….she testified that when she came out of the fog in the desert she knew something bad happened because she had blood on her hands and feet….was barefoot. Then she cleaned herself up with the Costco water that was in her trunk. Is she lying when she came out of the fog? That is what she testified to. You lost me again
  • Lisa Schulein oh and she put shoes and socks on in the desert….
  • Lisa Schulein My question or point is that Jodi did say on the stand what I wrote above…..she was out of the fog so she should know if she had shoes on or not….right?
  • George Barwood Lisa Schulein Just because Jodi did not have her shoes on when she “woke up”, does not mean she didn’t put them on to go down stairs.

    I guess when she got to her car, maybe she didn’t want to get too much blood on the shoes, so she took them off until she got to a spot where she could clean her feet off.

    That’s speculation of course, there are many other possibilities.

  • Lisa Schulein Exactly….but she would know. Then that theory is that she knew before she left if she took her shoes off not to get blood in car and that also goes against your other theorie that she wasn’t covered in blood….
  • Billy Malone George, although JM thought this whole case hinged on the gas can return, my thought are it hinged around he gun shot. Without someone like Dr DiMaio there the whole purpose of the defense team was to rip off the taxpayers. There was no defense. For this they were indeed outstanding in ripping of the taxpayers.
  • Becky Atkinson I dont think JM wanted to believe Jodi and TA was having sex.But again he wasnt there.
  • Becky Atkinson Why would so many socks be in the washer? Im sure Jodi didnt wear all those socks before washing them..
  • Becky Atkinson JM calls them footprints, why would Jodi stand in blood and stomp around in one spot? Maybe that where the struggle was , and TA had a hold of Jodi, and she was trying to get away..Looks like a lot of movement with ur feet… just saying.
  • Billy Malone Becky, JM sure didn’t hold back on Travis having sex with any other girl other than Jodi. Sure played well to the jury.
  • Becky Atkinson Billy Malone, can you answer my question about all those socks in the washer?
  • Billy Malone In a word, “NO”
  • Becky Atkinson Ha.. didnt think so..
  • Billy Malone Tell you one thing, JM never mentioned them in his closing statements.
  • Kitz DC You know Becky Atkinson, those socks might very well answer the question on why there aren’t any foot prints beyond the bathroom. Maybe she kept changing socks? That would answer why the wash had like two dozen pair? Just saying…
  • Becky Atkinson No he never did, but they were all shown to the jury, and the med shirt that was in the wash where the camera was found.. Another thing the defense should of ask about.. i think..
  • Kitz DC I found it odd too that they didn’t go into any detail on that med shirt. The socks really stood out to me too; who wears that many socks in even a week?
  • Billy Malone Now JM does give a maybe for the ones Jodi was wereing
  • Becky Atkinson That bag of cloths was evidence right? Evidence of what? no one talked about the cloths .. only the camera.
  • Billy Malone She took her socks off, and then maybe took her shoes off, or maybe put different socks on – but definitely the item that she was wearing was taken off before that camera was taken downstairs and put in the washing machine. And it was put in the washing machine, and put through a cycle.
  • Becky Atkinson yes and the other load was taken out and put in the dryer..
  • Kitz DC Well they may have already talked about it and resolved it to both their satisfaction (State and Defense). Like the bloody foot print. That’s what makes it so frustrating with this trial; we so everything introduced at the trial but we don’t see everything that was resolved, prohibited, or discounted.
  • George Barwood What is perhaps strange is that Jodi somehow dragged Travis into the shower, but what next? There don’t seem to be any foot prints down the center of the hallway, or any bloody footprints in the closet.

    Perhaps her foot prints down the hallway got washed away, but that is hard to account for.

    Doesn’t shed much light on any question of guilt or innocence, it’s perhaps a bit puzzling.

  • Kitz DC well the socks have always bugged me. I don’t think it shows innocence or guilt; just another bizarre thing coming out of this trial.
  • Billy Malone Like with almost every trial it should have lasted all of 15 min. Only question here was ,”Why don’t you think it was self defense” ?
  • Becky Atkinson Yes George Barwood, unless Jodi has all this time to clean up her footprints as she is walking out the door.
  • Becky Atkinson Yes one would say 15 min Billy Malone, But this trial was to kill a human trial, guess they last longer.. just sayin
  • Billy Malone To me it was to extract as much money as possible out of the taxpayers pockets and into those connected with the judicial system. Most have very lavish lifestyles to support so none come cheap.
  • Zee Davis

RYAN OWENS!!! THE HATER!!!!!!!!Jodi Arias Tells ABC She Feels ‘Betrayed’ By Jury, Calls Interviewer A ‘Hater’ via @mediaite


Jodi Arias Tells ABC She Feels ‘Betrayed’ By Jury, Calls Interviewer A ‘Hater’ | Mediaite
After attempting to convince the jury not to give her the death penalty, Jodi Arias made the media rounds, with interviews airing on both ABC and NBC on Wednesday morning. On Good Morning America, ABC’s Ryan Owens aired a portion of his conversation with Arias, in which she said she felt betrayed by…


  • Dusty Lee likes this.
  • Sonja Contreras Becky Isn’t Ryan such a tool? I don’t like any case he covers. So biased.
  • Becky Atkinson His words were so very mean toward Jodi.. Sorta like he was talking for all of the haters on the States Page.. I don’t like him..
  • Kitz DC I remember seeing this guy interviewed after the trial. I remember thinking that he seemed more interested in being famous than reporting the news. I wouldn’t call him a reporter. IMNSHO of course.
  • Dusty Lee Ryan was rude and he is an arse. I don’t like him either. He is an anal retentive.
  • Becky Atkinson Remorse is what everyone talked about not seeing from Jodi, But Jodi says TA attacked her and she defended herself. Why would she show remorse?
  • Heather Soper Jodi has been betrayed by many people, I feel so bad for her, luckily she’s strong enough to dismiss them for the lowlife they are. And so am I…
  • Heather Soper …..Dusty Lee would do well to think before she speaks..
  • Karlie M. Thompson Becky Atkinson said: Remorse is what everyone talked about not seeing from Jodi, But Jodi says TA attacked her and she defended herself. Why would she show remorse?
    Usually when a killing occurs between people who knew each other and had a relationship, the person who does the killing says something like, “I didn’t want to do it, I loved him but I had to. I didn’t want to hurt him, I just wanted him to stop.” That’s what I think people mean when they say they wanted her to show remorse.
  • Becky Atkinson Karlie M. Thompson, and thats true for some folks, but Jodi fought for her life.She cried on the stand,she said she didnt kno she even shot him.
  • George Barwood Karlie Jodi is in a pretty tough spot. She admits killing Travis, but doesn’t know what happened after she shot him, because she was so scared she cannot remember.

    She wishes she had acted in a different way, that she had never gone to Mesa to see him.

    So there is remorse, but she is maintaining her innocence, because the trial was not fair, she told the truth but was convicted of premeditated murder when she knows there was no premeditation.

    Incidentally, there was a ruling on remorse pre-trial, but the judge deferred her decision:…/092012/m5438578.pdf

  • Becky Atkinson well said George Barwood..
  • Mark Curtis Jodi has show remorse many times
  • Kitz DC Didn’t Dr. Samuels testify that a flat affect can be related to PTSD, or was it Demarte relating it to personality disorder? I can’t remember but do remember it coming in during the trial.
  • Kitz DC I don’t know if I’d call him a “hater”. Instead I’d call him a limelight seeker. He had to have known the tougher his questions, the more opportunity he’d have to hit the BIG networks. IMO of course.
  • Zee Davis

RE Just Da Truth Blog
The rope is Knot What It Seems. Brad, you seem to take all evidence and testimony in a light most favorable to guilt. If you want to tie up your GF to a sleigh headbaord, your way doesn’t work too good. It’s better to do it this way, which is more favorable to innocence, which is the proper way to view evidence and testimony in a fair trial.
Rob Roman's photo.
Rob Roman's photo.
  • 7 people like this.
  • Heather Soper I’m afraid he does, Rob.. its disappointing. One would think by now a man as articulate as he is would have seen all the evidence and all we have said on here and not still think she premeditated it…
  • Rob Roman I have thought about this also, but I thought about both sides, guilty and innocent, not just one side.
  • Heather Soper I find those that sit on the fence a whole year later are extremely frustrating. The only thing in his favour is that he’s always polite.
  • Nina Kearney This is a wonderful diagram Rob Roman.
  • Rob Roman Brad, I can’t even begin to address your article because it seems to me to be comedy. What is your level of education and what is your field of experience? Fibers are fibers.Those pillows you looked at have nothing in common with the pillows in Travis’ bedroom. Etc. Etc.
  • Rob Roman The rope was reported to be decorative drape cord. Do you know what that is Brad? That’s exactly “tassels or fringe”.
  • Rob Roman We are not talking about experts. We are talking about people who understand the basics of law, a basic understanding of the scientific method, a basic understanding of logic. All which you don’t seem to show in your articles. Like that article Debunking GeeBee about how you mathematically prove that Jodi’s gas gauge must have been low on gas before getting to Ryan’s.
  • Rob Roman Fibers from a pillow are identical material as fibers from a drape cord. The length and the shape of fibers has nothing to do with anything. Even if they are from a pillow, this still doesn’t prove that there was no rope, as this was offered only as a possibility.
  • Rob Roman Brad, you have made many astute observations on this page. I found your articles to be very well done. Don’t get me wrong. In American law, if there are two reasonable explanations, one pointing to innocence and one pointing to guilt, you must choose the one pointing to innocence. If there is any doubt, the defendant should get the benefit of that doubt. The defense needs to prove their case beyond any other possibility. The defense only need show that there is another reasonable possibility. That’s the basics of law. People have reversed these basic principles because a young man had his life ended in a very horrible way.
  • Rob Roman Yet if a man goes and shoots his girlfriend dead, this would have been resolved years ago with less legal consequences for the man. I really fail to see a big difference in these two domestic violence cases.
  • Becky Atkinson Drapery tie back

    Becky Atkinson's photo.
  • Rob Roman Becky is illustrating what I’m trying to say. It’s basically the same material as on the pillows. I know because we had this material tying back our drapes.
  • Becky Atkinson blood/hair/fibers..

    Becky Atkinson's photo.
  • Randall Stevens My issue with the diagram is that Martinez specifically asked Jodi if the rope was looped around the headboard, and how many times. She said that it was looped, and only once. She also approximated the rope to be 20′-25′. If the method in the diagram on the right was used, there would be no real need to have to cut the rope at all. Also, with the method of measuring the rope by holding one end in the bedroom, and pulling the other end into the bathroom, and cutting it does not make sense as far as ensuring the proper length was cut. – Just read over the previous comments & realized
    Brad more or less made the same argument(s)…my apologies.
  • Becky Atkinson Maybe no need… But it was cut, cause theres pieces laying around.. The picture above is blood, another piece of the roping, and hair, . You can tell thats hair..right?
  • Randall Stevens It appears to be hair, and that is what it was submitted as in evidence. Neither side contested what it was, so I’m not going to argue that point.
  • Rob Roman Looped around once means the rope must have been well over twenty feet. Also, why does somebody do anything? Running to the bathroom with Jodi holding one end to unwind the rope and cut it may have been an exciting thing to do. I can picture it easily. Travis is such a neat-nick, everything in it’s place. He’s exactly the type who would put the knife in the bathroom before returning it to the kitchen.
  • Nina Kearney I never saw this pic with the blood and rope as depicted in Becky Atkinson pic! How could the jury miss this?!? I only saw the one with the bullet casing.
  • Nina Kearney I completely understand what you mean Brad Justda, as I thought the meaning Rope was more substantial as well.
  • Nina Kearney ^ your correct Brad Justda, you bring out good points.
  • Melissa Spornitz Frederick Who ever has seen or needed a drapery tie back 20 feet long? Must be some really big drapes. If anyone can clear that up for me it would be greatly appreciated. Am I missing something?
  • George Barwood Some interesting points here, EVen if the material is “basically the same” a careful analysis could reveal differences : the thickness, color, what die has been used, etc.

    Jodi gave a specific description that the rope she was tied up with was Green and Gold.

    So an important test is to simply check the rope in the photo to see if that was the case, allowing for any effects of the rope having been covered in blood.

  • George Barwood “that’s the one Jodi told Juan was a piece of the ‘rope’. ”

    Brad Do you have a link to the video on this? Did Flores not ask her about the rope/Tassel found near the shower?

    I think the non-bloody part of that does seem to have a “goldish” tinge.

  • Becky Atkinson wasnt it the draperys she was talking about being green and gold? i thought i saw a picture of the draperys in one of th pictures.
  • George Barwood Is it possible the rope was made of several strands, Gold, Green and perhaps an inner core that was Tan coloured? And the “inner core” is the bit we see on the stairs?
  • Ronna Stallard Brad – may places of business refer to many things as rope – EXAMPLE >…
  • Rob Roman Brad, you are still ignoring that the rope referred to was decorative curtain tiebacks, which is no different from tassels or loops on a pillow. It’s the same sort of material. Fibers are fibers. You are still ignoring the evidence and viewing things through a prism of guilt. There is no “huge leap”, rather what you are saying is a huge leap.
  • Lisa Schulein Hi….Rob. I just have a question about the decorative curtain tieback that may be the fibers. Why would anyone cut up expensive curtains including the tiebacks that come with them instead of buying cheap rope? Why use rope at all….why not ties or something soft and something that someone has decorative in their house which they would have to replace. They wouldn’t only have to replace the one curtain but others that match with the room. I just never heard of someone destroying window coverings when there are many other things to ties someones wrists up….thanks
  • Rob Roman Lisa, there is no destroying. Apparently they had a spool or a large length of this rope (actually soft braided cord). Who knows where it came from or what people use or why they use it. They didn’t take it off the curtains in the home.
  • Lisa Schulein Ok…thought you and GB were talking about the curtains and tie backs that were the same color in the bedroom…sorry for the misunderstanding…
  • Lisa Schulein Hi Brad…..I just misunderstood of where the decorative rope they were talking about….but decorative rope belongs to something like curtains or something else within someones home. I just cant see someone cutting something that they paid money for to decorate. Thats all I meant
  • Rob Roman This is a complicated case with many facets and lots of facts and people to remember. This is a good forum for trying to get the facts straight and it’s no easy thing.
  • Rob Roman Brad, the fringes and tassels on the pillows you bought may be like yarn or floss, but not the throw pillows in Travis’ room. There is zero comparison to what you bought and what was in Travis’ room.
  • Lisa Schulein I agree Brad….but that looks more like a tassle or something. Rope that I have seen are thicker and pictures usually make thing look larger then they really are….
  • Melissa Spornitz Frederick The biggest question is why would anyone, especially a bachelor, have any form of decorative rope/ties in his house and even if so……who has ever seen or needed one 10 to 20 feet long?
  • Melissa Spornitz Frederick The yarn on the stairs appears to be a complete loop. Not a remnant of a cut rope.
  • Rob Roman You buy this stuff by the yard. What I an saying, brad, is Travis’ throw pillows don’t appear to me to have a fringe. They appear to be braided loops that do not separate easily.
  • Rob Roman I don’t take much stock in the photo of the material on the stairs, either, Melissa.
  • Melissa Spornitz Frederick It is not beyond possibility, you are right.
  • Melissa Spornitz Frederick It’s tough to say Rob, I have only seen that one picture of the fringe pillow and its not close enough to clearly see . . IMO, they are V shaped fringes, sewn in at the V. Other than loops it is the only way I have been able to do it. I am not an expert or factory worker though. I could be wrong.
  • Rob Roman I’m going to take another look at the photo. It is blurry.
  • Rob Roman Brad – You solved the case! Kudos!
  • Melissa Spornitz Frederick I have not Brad, sorry. Perhaps I should.
  • Brad Justda Melissa this is the blog Rob references on this post, this may answer your questions or totally confuse you lol…/jodi-arias-rope…
  • Melissa Spornitz Frederick Thanks Brad, that is pretty much my opinion as well…so far. I am sure the fibers are from the pillow myself but I need to watch Jodi’s rope testimony once more before I can objectively comment again. I forget her description of it.
  • Brad Justda I have written a new blog that addresses the new info about the decorative cord, I posted a link on my Facebook page, and you can go directly to my blog to read it:…/jodi-arias-re…
  • George Barwood Hi Brad I read your blog quickly.

    One thing that I have wondered about is this:

    If Travis did cut the bondage rope to length with a knife, why would that produce short fragments anyway?

    Perhaps this is pillow fringe, but if so, what does that prove?

    Maybe it’s all a red herring.

  • Brad Justda It just proves it wasn’t a rope–and it still leaves the mystery of if there ever was a rope unsolved. A rope and pillow fringe is not a mutually exclusive state of being, so this really tells us no more than we knew before. There still could have been a rope, it just wasn’t found in these fibers.
  • George Barwood Brad I think we agree…

    Odd though it may seem, Travis’ pillows apparently were falling apart for some reason (maybe he liked to pull bits out??!!), and there were bits lying around.

    Cutting the bondage rope with a knife would produce two long pieces, both of which Jodi must have taken with her.

    I don’t think the defense actually claimed otherwise.

  • George Barwood One very minor thought, after the bondage session was over, Jodi testified the rope was chucked on the floor. It might have picked up a loose bit of Tassel, and then as she took the rope down the stairs, perhaps the Tassel fell off.

    Still hardly proves anything, just another thought I had.

  • Brad Justda George the fringe is readily pulled out of those pillow. On both pillow I had access to, it took next to no force, and there were other loose pieces sticking out all over. The pillows I had were fairly new, they didn’t look used or anything, so it wasn’t like they were used in pillow fights.
  • George Barwood OK Brad, it sounds as if bits can come out very easily, and we agree it’s quite likely both the bit on the stairs and the bit near the shower are likely both pillow Tassel.

    What do you think about my suggestion that maybe the bondage rope helped transfer the pillow Tassel to different places?

  • Brad Justda George I don’t get why that connection is important. The fringe could have been transferred by any number of ways, and now that we feel they’ve been properly identified, I don’t think they offer any value, other than something that can be crossed off the list of important evidence. With the evidence and testimony we have now, there is no indication that they can supply any other clues or answers. There have been suggestions that a pillow was used to muffle the sound of the gun shot, but I don’t think there is anything you or I could do to prove or disprove that theory.
  • George Barwood “The fringe could have been transferred by any number of ways..”

    Yes. But I think it would be more likely to stick to a rope than just say bare feet or shoes….See More

  • Becky Atkinson So if its pillow fringe .. are you saying Jodi and TA had a pillow fight?:) Then the pillows was put back nice and neat on the chair.
  • Becky Atkinson when you zoom things in they do look different than the naked eye. Just like all the blood puddles and splatter.. i saw the puddle with the gun cartridge in it and it was small .. but when zooming that puddle made it look larger and more gross.
  • Zee Davis

FAQ Post (Updated occasionally)

This group is for
1. People who believe Jodi Arias is innocent
2. Open minded people who would like more information…Continue Reading

Jodi Arias – a detailed wiki about the case – home


Step 5: Why Amanda Webb was mistaken about the 3rd gas can.

Amanda Webb testified that she could not find a record that Jodi returned the 3rd gas can, meaning that Jodi lied about that, suggesting her testimony was untrue, she had something to hide and there was premeditation.

Some points:…See More

Juan Martinez Exposed!
Jodi Arias DID return the kerosene can to Walmart on June 3rd of 2008. Chelsea Young Amanda Webb


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